Here’s a good example of what corrosion/rust does…The first pic is a 1982 home the other a 2000.
Greetings Tom,
I noticed that you did not receive any comments on your posts here so I will enlighten the audience a little for educational edification.
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Re-bar prior to the 2014 NEC (for clarification) being used as part of a concrete encased electrode (CEE or UFER as some call it) has to make the physical connection between the electrode itself (in the footer) and the GEC (grounding electrode conductor). While it was common to turn UP the rebar and make that connection to the CEE above ground (remaining accessible after termination) it is technically not acceptable in the eyes of the NEC as written, prior to 2014 NEC of course.
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Now the clamps being shown here may or may not be listed for use with rebar, the ones that are listed for ground rods are not technically listed (most certainly not at the time these were installed) for use with rebar.
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The implied nature that they may be substituting for a ground rod would also be a false notion by some because ground rods have a specific diameter they are constructed to under NEMA GR-1 and a rebar would not meet that requirement.
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Now, could these simple be the turned up portions of a CEE, it is entirely possible but again based on the age of the homes quite possible. However, not compliant at the time of inspection.
Great info!
Would you call it out? Defect? Comment?
WBO - makes no difference what someone else calls out what is trec requirement?
please cite here
regardless of trec requirement/opinion you as an “educated inspector” better know the right answer and be able to convey/report this to all clients when encountered
some of us in your market expect the highest standards from our associates
it’s not about competition, i have none ask any that really know me, it’s about the standard of care for the consumer
WBO - makes no difference what someone else calls out what is your SoP requirement?
please cite here
regardless of trec requirement/opinion you as an “educated inspector” better know the right answer and be able to convey/report this to all clients when encountered
some of us in your market expect the highest standards from our associates
it’s not about competition, i have none see below, it’s about the standard of care for the consumer
my personal principle since the conception of ADAIR INSPECTION
i get the gigs i’m supposed to have the rest belong to someone else
WBO - makes no difference what someone else calls out what is your SoP requirement?
please cite here
& what would you want to know as a consumer encountering this on your very first inspection
regardless of trec requirement/opinion you as an “educated inspector” better know the right answer and be able to convey/report this to all clients when encountered
some of us in your market expect the highest standards from our associates
it’s not about competition, i have none see below, it’s about the standard of care for the consumer
my personal & the spiritual principle since the conception of ADAIR INSPECTION
i get the gigs i’m supposed to have the rest belong to someone else
Did the house have a code compliant grounding electrode system?
Robert’s question is the most important question of the thread in my opinion as it pertains to calling something in this case out.
Now unrelated to Robert’s response I felt the need to say the following-
But I would not be so soon to jump down his throat (not implying anyone did, just saying) because this forum is a place to learn and not everyones level of experience is the same. The ONLY reason i come to this forum is to help teach, you remove that expectation and people like me wont visit because I could careless these days about doing inspections myself…i’m an educator and I along with folks like Robert are donating our experience for FREE.
So let the education continue is my motto.
From the TREC SoP
“Report as in need of repair the lack of a grounding
electrode conductor in the service where visible, or the
lack of secure connection to the grounding electrode or
grounding system;”
I’m assuming that “where visible” refers to the service, not the GEC, since if the GEC is visible, it could not be lacking.
When I don’t find a grounding electrode, I call it out. No problem there. I always pose the “what would I want to know as a consumer” question. Good advice.
The question boils down to this; how can you tell if the home has a Ufer ground?
I called my electrician and he told me that with a Ufer ground there should be a rod protruding from the slab (it can be rebar) with a conductor attached to it and running to the ground bar in the service panel. He also tells me that acceptable practice is to run the conductor directly to the rebar, so that all one may see is a conductor disappearing into the slab.
So, in the lack of copper GEC, properly connected, it appears best practice would be be sure there is a grounding conductor - either entering the slab (or connected to a rod or rebar) - that enters the slab above grade, in which case we can reasonably assume there is a Ufer grounding system.
So, in the OP’s example, without digging we cannot verify that the rebar is part of a Ufer system, and we know that rebar is not an acceptable GEC, therefore we cannot determine that it is compliant or safe, and need to call it out.
Opinions? Comments?