Reminder - Have you identified this type of installation?

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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kmcmahon wrote:
So what would you say for this installation in an unfinished basement?
(Note the picture is on it's side by the way the block is running. The NM is coming down from the floor joists.


This is a perfectly code compliant installation, it follows this rule ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

Quote:
334.15(A) To Follow Surface. The cable shall closely follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.



Quote:
anything below 7' were exposed NM cable is concerned is bad


Say what?

That is an opinion, it is not the position of the NEC.

Cables run outside emerging from grade are required to be protected.

Quote:
300.5(D)(1) Emerging from Grade. Direct-buried conductors and enclosures emerging from grade shall be protected by enclosures or raceways extending from the minimum cover distance required by 300.5(A) below grade to a point at least 2.5 m (8 ft) above finished grade. In no case shall the protection be required to exceed 450 mm (18 in.) below finished grade.


Also Cables coming up through a floor or subject to damage are required to have protection.

Quote:
334.15(B) Protection from Physical Damage. The cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC rigid nonmetallic conduit, pipe, guard strips, listed surface metal or nonmetallic raceway, or other means. Where passing through a floor, the cable shall be enclosed in rigid metal conduit, intermediate metal conduit, electrical metallic tubing, Schedule 80 PVC rigid nonmetallic conduit, listed surface metal or nonmetallic raceway, or other metal pipe extending at least 150 mm (6 in.) above the floor.


As there is a section devoted to NM run exposed it seems clear it is allowed.

Notice that the required protection for cables passing through a floor only extends 6" above the floor, that makes anything above 6" up to the discretion of the AHJ to what area might be exposed to physical damage.

In the picture above I would say if the tenant have a dart board hanging beside the cable that would be a problem if it is a basement used for typical storage what exactly is going to happen to it.

Remember the NEC allows SE cable as the service entrance cables from the overhead utility feed right down to the sill exposed.


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: tallen
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Bob ,


So, if you are in a garage and there is “Romex” running down the wall to a plug at 18" this is considered adequate protection ?



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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If it is stapled to the stud yes.


Mike P.


Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Where I live we would agree with Mike on this.


The definition of "subject to physical damage" is really in the hands of the installer and the inspector.

It is purely a personal judgment.

I live in New England and most house services are done with SE cable exposed on the outside of the building.

IMO it would be hard to say a 20 amp circuit down the wall in a garage is more subject to physically damage or more of a hazard then the unfused SE cable running down the side of the house.

I know in some areas what you describe is not allowed, you would have to go with the trend in your area. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

Bob


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: tallen
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icon_biggrin.gif icon_biggrin.gif



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: tallen
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icon_smile.gif I mean a finished Garage. icon_smile.gif



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Quote:
334.10(A) Type NM. Type NM cable shall be permitted as follows:
(1)For both exposed and concealed work in normally dry locations except as prohibited in 334.10(3).


Quote:
334.15 Exposed Work.

(A) To Follow Surface. The cable shall closely follow the surface of the building finish or of running boards.


Drywall is building finish. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

If it meets these two articles it would be allowed where I live.


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: tallen
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OK,OK I give icon_lol.gif icon_lol.gif



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



To add to that it would have to be secured and supported to code.


Also this would not be my choice as a way to do it.

A bare stud wall I have done this, down the outside of a sheet rocked wall no, I would go beyond code and either fish it in the wall, change over to EMT / PVC etc. or at the least put up a running board so I could use a lot of staples.

Keep in mind I have not worked in a wood frame structure in a very long time.

Bob


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: tallen
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I have never found exposed NM when a Licensed Electrician did the work it is either wiremold or fished.I think it is just common sence.The NEC is a reference of min. requirements only. Or am I nuts? icon_twisted.gif



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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No your not nut’s at least from what I can tell from here. icon_lol.gif


But I have learned not to speak in absolute terms when it comes to the electrical trade.

As soon as you say never something comes along and makes you rethink that.

![](upload://9GsqOyCfK8AZQZz1hmnqB9DpVc7.gif)


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: tallen
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I do not see any feeders icon_confused.gif is that pretty panel for show and tell?



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Well yes and no icon_smile.gif the man in the picture is a Canadian electrician and electrical instructor.


This is a working panel he installed in a friends basement.

The Canadian electric code requires the service conductors to be shielded even when the main cover is removed, a nice idea I think.

The feeders enter through the back behind the removable shield.



Bob


--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

Originally Posted By: tallen
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I agree an exelent Idea.Very cool icon_cool.gif


I really should wear my glasses whilst I am here



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005