Unlike some on this board that can not admit they are doing something wrong its not me if I am doing things wrong I will correct it.
My thought pattern has been based on a 80% load factor as what not to exceed don’t know if I read that or some sparky told me that but in any event I have never had it disputed in a report perhaps the electricans around here just agreed with me so they could upgrade the panel. I struggle with the idea that a panel main is allowed to exceed up to 133% of rated capacity for 2 hours to me that is crazy. But if its so stated in the NEC I will have to except.
That pretty much means no inspector could really ever confirm a problem like this. It’s way outside the SOP but now if you found a load which exceeded the main breaker do you refer it to an electrician or just ignore it?
No I don’t ignore it, I have always refered to the electrican and will in the future. I started checking amp draw on the panel when I started performing IR on the panels checking for loose connections:D
That is what keeps my phone ringing consumers wanting more when you buy a car do you buy the stripped down model or do you have a few bells and whistles installed
Nice find was that a double pole breaker and what did it serve
I had one today that was right up your alley first time I have found this make and model in Okla 1952 original The nasty mess was at the pole and meter base feeding underground to the panel in the converted garage
I just realized what you said (checking Panels for loose connections is outside of most State’s SOP)
So are you saying as home inspectors we should not care if there are loose connections or are we suppose to use just a little spot gun that takes 15 minutes to go over every breaker. I get the distinct impression that you are not a believer in IR
I am a very big believer of IR when it is done and interpreted properly. I see nothing wrong with using a meter as long as the person using the meter knows how to interpret what they are seeing properly.
I do see something wrong when someone is using these items that has no clue of what they are doing or using them as some sort of theatrical demonstration to show that they have found something they haven’t.
You have made several remarks in the past that just gave me the feeling you were not a fan of IR and beside I felt like a argument with a contractor today so tag you were it;-)
Some how I knew that breaker was on a cook stove and yes I knew my panel was a zinsco that is why I posted it. In the years I have been doing inspections in this State that is the first zinsco that I have found. House was built in 1952 and the panel was original
Where my problems lies is when someone, not necessarily a home inspector, takes readings and have no clue of what they are saying based on the readings they find.
The original post of this thread is one example. Let’s look at what the NEC has to say about this service. Using the Optional Calculation in 220.82 we will find that the service is to small to start with.
1800 Square Feet will equate to 5400 va load for the general lighting load
Two small appliance and laundry will add another 4500 va
Water heater will be another 4500 va
Using an average range of 12000 va
Let’s include a dryer of another 5000 va (see 220.54)
We now stand at 31,400 va load.
The First 10,000 is at 100% and the rest at 40% Equates to 18,560
Now to the heat and AC, 65% of the 10kw heat plus the AC. Not know but guessing that the AC is around 7200 va we have a total of 13,700
Add the two together and divide by 240 and we see this service needs at least 134.4 amps
I did this without the use of a meter and I am dead on the button based on the information given in the original post.
Turning on all the appliances and using a meter does nothing nor does it prove anything. The rebuttal to such tactics is, “it has been working fine for all these years.”
Using the proper tool is where we stand correct in our findings. The calculation for the service is the correct tool to use.
I don’t dispute what you say we as inspectors or thermographers don’t do load calculations not our job but it is our job to throw a red flag if we even think or supect there is a load problem and I do measure amps on the panel as my starting point to decide if I recommend a electrician or not.
Doing a test where everything is turned on at the same time and checking the ampacity is no more valid than adding up all the breaker ratings to say the service is undersized. Both are artificially biased tests and the results mean nothing.
Being that I am tied in with a few realtors I appreciate the fact that some HIs will do the meter thing as it keeps me in a cash flow.
Once they throw the flag I do a load calculation on my letter head and charge for my time.
I also like the thermo pictures of multiwire circuits such as dryers and ranges as once again it keeps the cash flowing when I once again do the calculation and shut down the picture.
As easy as it is to download a calculator off the internet that would stop me from making all this money I don’t understand why more HIs don’t do the calculations but again it keeps my fishing money at the max. I am think about a new boat in the near future such as this one.
