I report it.
It’s an exterior hose bib with a long valve stem down the barrel of the pipe and connected to the valve and valve seat located 8 to 12 inches in from the house exterior… thus is always warm (in theory).
Did you read that in a book?
This is Brian MacNeish’s original post,
John Lee AKA Inspector Inspector corrected him and now Brian is an expert at frost free hose bibs.
Too Funny!:roll:
Brian,
I don’t do code inspection but surely you would agree that a c-o-c-k situated inside would make sense…
Mario
Unlike you Brian is able to articulate very well the topic and knowledge. Its unfortunate you are not able to expound on subjects with some degree of intelligence and its apparent you are one very jealous individual.
Tell me what did you do to earn Member of the Year? Quite frankly I don’t see anything of value you have added, unlike Roy Cooke who did more in one month for Nachi than you have done in a year. I guess they had to reach to the bottom of the barrel and give some one the award for 2007.
No, just typed it for a description since I didn’t have a graphic or picture. Give us something better quickly!
BTW, you didn’t ask about the “in theory” part. Guess you don’t wan’t to know the situation that causes these frost-proof hydrants to freeze up!! You have to ask questions if you’re going to learn!!!
Only in one situation not thought of or required by the codes!! But as you see the national does not require an inside stop and waste valve/c-o-c-k. What does Quebec code call for?
Yes, Claude, that is why we report absence or presence under the sinks. Nothing to do with code requirements. If the home is older and has been reno’d, with or without a permit, the buyer just wants to know, “How hard will it be to change the faucet?”
Brian,
in theory being the majic words here…
· For The Record: The hose bib (exterior faucet) is the long-stem “frost-free” type. These faucets are designed not to retain water in them after they are shut off, so they are less prone to freezing in wintertime. However, our experience is that these faucets are not always reliable. We have come across a few instances where the “frost-free” hose bib has frozen up during severely cold weather conditions. In most cases, this is due to improper installation or slow leak. Frozen pipes can split, risking a flood in the basement and considerable water damage. For added protection, we recommend a second shut-off valve on the water supply to the hose bib be installed inside the house so you won’t have to rely on the frost-free hose bib alone…
Inspector Inspector tried to correct me but he hasn’t shown me any other required shut-off valves in single family dwellings with municipal water supply other than what I quoted from the national code. Your a BCQ type of guy, can you help me?? Is the OBC that different from national?
Thank you for the comments…interesting to say the least.
A few stuck to the point and made us aware that we cannot always depend on the SOP as the Standard that clients expect to protect them.
The reason I ask is this issue seems to come up time and time again as “part” of the plumbing system. How can we inspect one part and choose to ignore other critical parts?
But we can’t call these valve misses at sinks, tubs etc as defects that the seller should correct or give funds up for the buyer to correct. If we call them, it will make a house built to today’s codes look bad. It’s something to be approached with a bit of tact when explaining to your client!
Brian
This illustrates the fact that omission of shut off valves should not be a deal blower, yet some seem to indicate by reporting the lack off same as a major issue which it is not.
So in a 1950’s home can we assume that there would be no need to warn the client about the potential cost upgrading in general? When does a shut-off valve become a health or possibly a safety concern? Upstairs at a bath tub for that nice new ceiling, or how about at a simple plumbing leak in a wall causing leakage and eventually mold development.
Or how about flooding the basement after a week-end away? Yes a cheap little shut-off valve can initially cost very little, but potentially cause thousands of dollars in damages.
Would you not call out a defective or missing TPR valve? What about applying a similar concern about any pipe conveying hot - pressurized water?
The individual shut-offs are certainly a convenience but should not be a big item in an inspection!!!
I don’t think the question asked was if it was a big deal to report the existance of shutoff valves but wether we reported missing or no shutoff valves.
Myself, I let my clients know in the report that there are no shutoff valves associated with the sink faucets and that if repairs are required for the faucets that the main house shutoff would have to be turned off. I then let them know that it is advisable that they provide shutoff valves for convenience in the future as they do repairs to existing faucets.
What does it hurt to provide a little extra professionalism and assistance to your client. My take on an effective report is not only to advise of existing problems but problems they may encounter in the future(along with remedies) and of course, little extras for their betterment in the future.
Allan
2.6. Plumbing
I. The inspector shall:
**A. Verify the presence of and identify the location of the main water shutoff valve. **
B. Inspect the water heating equipment, including combustion air, venting, connections, energy sources, seismic bracing, and verify the presence or absence of temperature-pressure relief valves and/or Watts 210 valves.
C. Flush toilets.
D. Run water in sinks, tubs, and showers.
**E. Inspect the interior water supply including all fixtures and faucets. **
F. Inspect the drain, waste and vent systems, including all fixtures.
G. Describe any visible fuel storage systems.
H. Inspect the drainage sump pumps and test pumps with accessible floats.
**I. Inspect and describe the water supply, drain, waste and main fuel shut-off valves, as well as the location of the water main and main fuel shut-off valves. **
J. Inspect and determine if the water supply is public or private.
K. Inspect and report as in need of repair deficiencies in the water supply by viewing the functional flow in two fixtures operated simultaneously.
L. Inspect and report as in need of repair deficiencies in installation and identification of hot and cold faucets.
M. Inspect and report as in need of repair mechanical drain-stops that are missing or do not operate if installed in sinks, lavatories and tubs.
N. Inspect and report as in need of repair commodes that have cracks in the ceramic material, are improperly mounted on the floor, leak, or have tank components which do not operate.
Claude,
I trust that the lack of shut-off valves under sinks is not an issue or concern as it relates to National Cert. and an item that would be considered for inclusion as a concern vis-a-vis TIPR?
Thank you Allan, you have captured the essence of our professional responsibility. I also agree that shut-off valves are not “normally” included in the SOP, except for the main shut-off valve that are specifically noted.
Now explain why to a licensed plumber…
The issue is not an issue relating to National Certification. It’s one regarding differences in communication for reporting of what an inspector inspects, or chooses to ignore and provide no comment on at all that could impact the homeowner.