Yes I’m writing this up as a defect. I’ve never ever seen anything like this. But for my own knowledge I would love for somebody to explain to me how flicking the switch makes outlet no longer grounded. Yes I realize the light is barely lit so it’s not a very good connection but how does it completely sever the connection when the switch is flipped on
Cory, you have to wait until it is done uploading before you click reply.
Please try again.
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My guess, if I’m reading this right, is that the receptacle is switched but is improperly wired.
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I agree. Or a bad connection somewhere.
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Oops.
Here’s the video
How could anytime not read what I wrote properly it’s not like I speak to text in utter gibberish and regularly forgot to proof read what I spoke. Haha
I’ll be honest, I thought you were tripping the breaker as loud as that switch is.
Yeah it was a crazy loud switch. I was not moving the breaker!
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“Switched” outlet with open ground with poorly done bootleg.
I think that’s your first clue. The switch is probably double pole and it’s switching the hot and the ground for the upper socket. When the switch is on, you get a poorly wired ground, when it’s off, you get neither. I.e. he had an extra screw on the switch, and screwed the ground wire to it.
I’d have liked to see the behavior of the other socket and a picture of the switch and socket behind the wall plate.
No matter what it is, there’s something that needs attention from a proper electrician.
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You can’t do electrical diagnosis with a three light tester! You have more than one problem those three lights can only do one problem at a time. You need to disassemble the outlet and the switch to see how it is wired.
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I have run into the same thing. I’ve had electricians find that it was a wiring issue on some, and defective manufacturing with outlets or switches on others.
I hate these things because it takes an essay to explain it. If you can upload that video into your report, it will save you a few hundred words.
Strongly disagree. Way, way beyond our SoP. For most HIs under most circumstances, disassembly can make you the owner of this condition or some other defect that might be found in the circuit later.
Someone familiar with my presentations and other posts might say, but wait…Sure, I’ve taken various things apart. I am very comfortable with electricity and a nerd. BUT…Do as I say and not as I’ve done. Do not take that outlet apart!
I think that Robert will agree with me that your 3-light tester indicates a problem. Diagnosis should be done by a licensed electrician.
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No one is telling him to do that. I am merely pointing out what will be required for diagnosis; which I’m sure you don’t disagree with. As a rule he should simply provide his non-intrusive observations. Many HIs lack the skill and or knowledge to diagnose these problems; nor is it necessary.
Three light testers can not be used for diagnosis of an electrical problem, they can only alert you to its presence. Realtors will often put you on the spot by asking, “why?” Don’t fall for that trap, just refer it out.
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Whenever things are wired incorrectly, you can get very weird electrical behaviors. I would write this up simply as (with the video):
Improper Branch Circuit Wiring
I observed indications of improper wiring. This is a possible electrical hazard. Further evaluation and correction by an electrical contractor is recommended.
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A perfectly acceptable answer to the Realtor or clients, “why” question is “I don’t know” but it is not supposed to do that.
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The load is pulling down the Voltage when the switch is on, thereby not triggering the lamp for the third indicator. It is vital to remember that plug in testers have a high input impedance. The fully illuminated center indicator and dark left indicator suggest that there is a relatively high impedance on the ground and that the grounded (neutral conductor) and the ungrounded are intact. By relatively high, I mean possibly still only a few Ohms when it should be close to zero.
Therefore, it is highly probable that the wiring is correct but that there is a less than ideal EGC joint, which is very likely nearby. If I were there diagnosing it, I would look in the outlet box first as Bob suggested. If the errant joint isn’t there, I’d go to the next nearest junction.
Of course, I am not suggesting that a home inspector attempt to diagnose any electrical problem. I am merely explaining why you are seeing what you’re seeing. (Which was your original question) and how I would track it down.
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Thanks for the reply.
Do you ever take faceplates off, Lon?
Think about what’s supposed to happen with a switched outlet. The switch interrupts (disconnects) the hot lead from the outlet. Well you know that isn’t happening because the center light is still lit.
Why is the right bulb extinguished when there is an open ground? Because that bulb is connected between hot (which we know we still have) and ground.
So the ground is opened when the switch is in the off position (instead of the hot) and makes a poor connection through the switch when the switch is on (the only two leads for the right bulb is hot and ground and we know the hot has a good connection because the center light is bright).
So if the ground lead is being switched instead of the hot . . . . Must be MISWIRED.
Now, if you had your solenoid tester you would see that the outlet is never really off. In this scenario a lamp would show the same - always on.
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Short answer…yes. I am very comfortable with electricity. In my past life in construction, and as a gonzo DIYer, I have done a lot of electrical work. But I very rarely remove cover plates.
Long answer…I remove cover plates when I think I may find something that will be important. Like purple wire nut splices on aluminum wiring or a boot-leg ground. 98% of the time, I can see what I need to see with the cover off. 2% of the time, I choose to pull the outlet because I can’t see what I want to see with it in place. BUT…I do not advocate for home inspectors to follow my example. I am going way, way beyond the SoP. Removing the cover is fairly safe. Pulling the outlet is only for HIs who are very familiar and comfortable with electrical components AND even then, is a venture deep into the danger zone. Bad splices can come loose, badly kinked wires might break, connections can separate, over-stripped conductors might cross and short. And then goofy one-off things can happen, oh, like when you go to put the outlet back and the entire box just shoves back into the wall. And then a whole nuther line of exciting things can happen, if you didn’t bother to kill the circuit before pulling the outlet.
So, my fellow boys and girls, do as I say and not as I sometimes do, and never pull outlets or switches. And if you take off a cover, for goodness sake, don’t go poking around the inside of the box. See what you can see and put the cover back. Don’t loose the screw.