Originally Posted By: mpetner This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Had the opportunity to take a tour of the Sprinkler Fitters Local Union 692 Training Center in the City of Philadelphia, PA. It’s quite an impressive site. Those union guys really know there stuff. The technology out there for fire protection and sprinkler systems is alot more sophisticated than I thought. They had all sorts of sprinkler system and valving arrangement setups. Most of the systems there were for industrial/commercial applications, but there were a few for residential setups. Any of you guys come across any of these systems in your inspections of your higher priced homes? Just curious.
Originally Posted By: rcloyd This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Michael:
I have reviewed and inspected 2 NFPA 13D (Domestic) sprinkler systems
that were installed in high end homes. One actually had its water supply provided from a cistern.
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Having many years as a sprinkler fitter, doing mostly residential, I will give you some basic info on what to look for. In the DC area, sprinkler systems are commonplace in new homes. Several jurisdictions require them in ALL new homes. Most places require them in multi-family dwellings or units over three levels.
First, most residential work is done with CPVC pipe. Similar to the white PVC plumbers use, but able to withstand more heat and orange in color. You will not always see the pipe as this is really designed for finished areas and is usually covered by walls and ceilings. You may see it under insulation in the attic. Copper is usually used in unfinished areas.
What should the inspector look for?
1. Check the main coming in. It should be branched the main water just before the main water shut off. There should not be a shut off below this split. This allows the plumbing to be shut down while the fire system is operational. There should be a backflow too. there should be a shut off for the system and a drain valve.
2. Check any exposed pipe. Make sure there is not any cracks or loose pipe.
3. Check the heads. Every jurisdiction is different, but note how far the heads are from each other and the wall. For example. Code might require no more than 10 foot spacing. The head should be no more than 10 feet from any wall and no more than 20 feet from another head in the room. Basicaly, the fire marshal calculates that the pressure there is adequate to cover an entire 10x10 area with one head. Also look for painted over heads and damaged fins. These may delay activation or alter spray.
Again every place has different codes, so check with the local fire marshall or fire department for any concerns. If anyone wants more info, email me. Also if you need any fire safety info, let me know. When not doing HI's I work for a international fire training orginization.
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Very true.
But..... It is definitely important to note that many sprinklers are recalled, but good luck determining if the sprinkler you are looking at is one involved. Finding the manufacturer is easy, but many recalls look very similar to non-recalls. As a former installer, I have a hard time keeping up with them. The most important fact is to check the general condition of the head. Just because the head is recalled, doesn't mean it is a big safety problem. Most recalls were due to a handfull of malfunctions. But those handfulls cost the companies millions. If you have any concerns, find a sprinkler company to check the heads. Most get paid by the manufacturer to replace the heads, so, they may charge little or nothing to check. Don't worry your client that the system won't work. Make sure if you think it may be a recall that they know that doesn't mean they have to stress out a whole lot.
What happened with the Omega heads by central was that some heads gaskets deteriorated and when the head activated the opening stayed shut not allowing the water. Now of course once the temp gets above the 150 degree activation to say 250 degrees, the gasket will melt away any way and here comes water. But that extra 30 seconds could cause thousands in damage.
Finally, I forgot the biggest thing to stress. THE SHUT OFF! Sprinklers do save lives. I have seen families who would have been stuck if the system didn't clear the way. But they also cause water damage. Harry Homeowner is moving in some new furniture the misses buys. He hits a head and activates it. Well Mr Homeowner knows where the water shut off is so he shuts it down. But nothing happens. Wait 30 minutes if lucky for plumber and $50k in water damage later.......
If it is a fire that sets it off, tell them to leave and let the FD take care of it. If that fire gets in the walls and they decide to deal with it themselves and shut it down it could kill them or burn the house down.
Originally Posted By: mpetner This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
If the service line serves both the domestic and fire service lines, then I assume the main service line is larger than what you would normally see. What?s it about 1? or 1.5? in diameter?
Also, what do you recommend for periodic maintenance for these systems? I seem to recall a valve labeled ?Inspector?s Test? on some of those systems. I know that the commercial valves should be opened up and inspected periodically by a professional. Stuff like turbercles form and could impede the valve operation.
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The service line is usually the same. Most residential systems are 1/2" fed by 1/2" service lines. They don’t need to be bigger. It isn’t like you have a constant need for more water. The system is charged and left that way the water is usually pretty stagnant until some activation. Yes it should be serviced yearly. All they do is hook a garden hose up to the drain valve and open it up. They also test the alarm. The alarm should go off within 30 seconds of activation, preferably 15.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The last few homes I inspected that had fire prevention systems were in Northern VA, mostly Alexandria or Arlington. Haven’t seen them in FL yet.
The ones I saw had a T off of the incoming water supply. The incoming was always 1" and the sprinkler feed was always 1", with 3/4" lines throughout the home (the visible ones that is).
All I did was look for leaks, look at the pressure gauge, check for an antisiphon valve and shutoff valve, a drain valve and recommend regular maintenance.
Should I have lit a match under one of the heads to check the alarm and water flow?
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Every jurisdiction is different with the supply they require. When the FPE designs it he uses the smallest pipe that will get the right amount of water to every point. He makes sure that the friction loss is minimal. He has to calculate how many GPM will flow at any given head. The Fire Marshall may require at least 250 GPM or whatever and he must meet that.
All you tested was correct. You can run some taps and check to make sure the pressure does not drop. If it does you have a bad back flow valve. I wouldn't recommend you do more unless you are a liscensed contractor. Too much liability. But so you know the way to test the alarm is to pull the red cover off the water flow alarm, pull the little lever which moves the paddle in the pipe. Hold for about 30 seconds and the alarm should sound. IF you do this, CALL THE ALARM COMPANY OR YOU WILL BE FINED.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Daniel,
Quiet honestly, I am just an HI. I do a visual. I have no way to state matter of factly whether the system will work or not. I cant pull a tap, or dismantle the system in any way.
That being said, I do appreciate the info. I especially like knowing the 10' rule.
We got these newfangled thangs anywhere around here in SW FL??
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Not sure about FL. But soon I am sure. Much of the country is starting to require them in EVERY home. Mostly starting in the more urban areas. Frankly, If I were building a home I would pay the extra $3 grand even if it was not required. Just beware of how they work and make sure you can tell your client how to shut it off in event of an accidental leak. Also make sure to advise them that it should never be shut off unless there is a leak. I witnessed a large home burn to the ground because the owner figured he would shut it off for the winter.
Originally Posted By: janderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Not sure about FL. But soon I am sure. Much of the country is starting to require them in EVERY home. Mostly starting in the more urban areas.
I agree...currently, a person has a significantly reduced risk of serious injury or death from fire while at work and inside the newly constructed office building protected with a fire suppression sprinkler system versus after work in their unprotected home. Additionally, I have yet to find a documented case of fire death in a protected building where the system was 100% operational (excluding the events at the WTC).
-- Within the seeds of ignorance lie the fruits of denial
Originally Posted By: jhagarty This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeremiah:
I have always found these offerings insightful.
I worked in an Industry where Fail Safe systems protecting the Community at Large were tested Annually, Monthly, Weekly etc.. but no guarantees were ever given or expected as these were Mechanical systems subject to failure at any time.
As far as Fire Suppression Systems, I recommend further evaluation by Trained, Qualified and Certified Professionals.
Originally Posted By: janderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe H,
I echo your sentiments, I can't think of anything that has an absolute guarantee. There is always some inherent risk of the failure of a component, or system. That's where risk management and pre-incident planning become key in dealing with the situation effectively.
-- Within the seeds of ignorance lie the fruits of denial
Originally Posted By: dfrend This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
As a home inspector, know how the residential systems work and make sure the client knows not to EVER shut it off.
This fire destroyed a Michaels Arts and Crafts store. The manager had shut down the sprinkler system because a valve was faulty and caused low pressure in the sinks. A child playng with matches caught some flamable christmas materials on fire and the large fire load contributed to a fast moving fire.
Just like plumbing, someone should be called immediately if there is a problem. For those interested I am preparing a brief overview of residential systems for the next Chesapeake Chapter meeting.
