Inspected a detached workshop/garage with a 60 amp Square D sub panel. The feed was from the home in a Square D 200 amp service panel. The sub panel did have its own grounding electrode conductor, as required on a detached building. My concern is that the neutral and ground conductors were installed on the same bus bar. Is that acceptable since the panel is in a detached building and the gec was installed?
It would depend under which code cycle the panel was installed under and if there was a metallic path between building.
It would not meet the latest code requirements for a 4 wire feeder.
The GEC does not change anything and is needed regardless if served by a feeder and not a single circuit.
Sub panel must have EGCs on separate ground bar or EGCs attached to the metal panel box and floating neutral bar. Plus your foto shows 2 or more neutrals under 1 screw, which is not safe. They should have used a 4 wire not 3 wire feeder and need to install another bus bar.
It may have been an acceptable installation.
I don’t remember the date, but before (2008?), a three wire feed could be ran to a detached structure with the grounding and grounded conductors bonded. No continuous metal could exist between the structures.
A GES would be needed regardless.
Looking at the age of the panel, this could have been easily installed when 3-wire feed to a detached building **was **allowed.
I see where the three-wire feed is coming into the panel – lower right corner.
I see where the neutral terminates on the neutral bar.
Does that mean that the thick black wire attached to the lug toward the top right is the GEC?
What is not sitting right with me is that it’s black and it’s made of aluminum, or at least appears to be.
In addition a 3 wire feed can remain if it is existing.
A GE S may not be required, see my post above.
Interesting about pre 2008 accepted practices. Amazingly crazy that we can have 2 completely opposite rulings based on the year and what they accepted then. How would HIs write such disparity up then? Its not like "GFCI outlet may not have been needed back when house was built but modern building practices require them ". These 2 methods of bonded grounds and neutrals at sub panels are quite opposites. Plus confusing to many HI’s one would think
Gfci protection but this is not required. Treat the Client like he or she is Family.
The detached building was constructed in 2000.
As said if before 2008 code cycle 3 wire feed with neutrals/grounds bonded with separate GEC/system was/is accepted.
Here’s two more graphics, one showing 3-wire feed, second showing 4-wire feed.
Assuming the 50 amp CB is the main the wiring method is NM cable and would already have a separate neutral and EGC If they’re both connected to the same bus then they’re in parallel which is another problem. That breaker is back-fed and requires a clip or some other method to hold it in place beyond simple pressure.
From the looks of it Id venture to say thats URD since I see the yellow tracer on the neutral. Basically its “POCO” style cable, no EGC. As others have mentioned, I agree that a 3 wire feed was allowed in the past. The structure must have no phone lines or anything of that nature since you will have a parallel path for current to travel.
I see one major issue though that so far has not been mentioned. The sub panel has no bonding screw. Since this is a 3 wire feed you bond the neutral bar to the case as you would on your main disconnect. Id call that out since if the panel case ever became energized no breaker would trip.
Forgot to mention. I see no handle tie on the 10-2 240 volt circuit coming in at the top of the panel. I would call that out as well.
I think that you’re correct I didn’t see the URD looking conductors in the back. That means that the panel needs a disconnecting means too.
Also unless dual rated URD cannot enter into a structure.
Is the yellow actually pieces of NM sheath slid over to identify the circuits? Looks like too much yellow to be a tracer.
If you look real close the conductor at the neutral lug (top right) has a yellow stripe. I believe that’s what he’s referring to.
I was looking at the bottom at the horizontal yellows.
There needs to be a disconnect for the structure and regardless of the code cycle, the egc’s must be bonded to the enclosure.
Good point about the disconnecting means, slipped my mind. Summing everything up this panel has violations and should be called out.