One service with 3 subs, no GEC

This looks like a 200 Amp service that feeds 3 panels, 200A in the house and a 100A panel at each of two pole barns. My question is, where is the GEC? Neutrals and grounds were not separated at any of the panels. GEC is not installed at any of the panels that I could tell.
Also, with the main breaker at the service being 200A, is this set up sufficient to run the 3 panels?

Do you have a picture of the drip loop and service point connection at the top of the pole? The only possible GEC I see is running up on the side of the pole.

There was an an exception in NEC that allowed a 3 conductor feeder to feed remote buildings without metal paths. In such a case the subs would have the neutral bonded and used as an EGC.

I don’t have that photo. You are right, it is on the side of the pole. Thank you!

So neutrals and grounds do not need to be separated at the subs?

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Forgot to mention that a 200amp service panel can feed 40 or whatever number of 100amp subs. What’s important is a load calculation not so much the max rating of the panels. So what matters is what loads are on those subs. If it seems like (based on the loads) the main would trip then you need to call it out for a review.

Also, the 2 neutrals for the 100amp subs are sharing the same terminal, that’s wrong. Need to check the panel label to ensure it can take 100amp breakers side by side.

If you separate the neutral in the subs then you will not have working EGCs, the breakers won’t trip in case of a ground fault. So the neutral must stay bonded in this case (3 conductor feeder) only. This exception was removed from NEC in 2008.

Underground Service Lateral.
With a subpanel, the terminal bar for the equipment ground ‘commonly referred to as a ground bus’ should be bonded electrically connected to the enclosure. Bonded.

Look at the same locations a bonding/grounding conductor should/could/would be located/situated. Main water pipe entrance or/and Grounding Electrodes or UFER.
Sorry for the edit.

As for 2 strand AL neutrals, under one lug. As long as the lug is capable of the AWG.

I see a few issues, the aforementioned two neutrals under one lug, a missing bushing and the most critical one the lack of a MBJ. I don’t see a green screw which means that the neutral bonding is dependent on the rusty nipple between the panel and the meter enclosure.

Thank you! You guys are the best!

It is not allowed Mr. Young

Joe can you explain what “capable of AWG” is, thank you.

I read Roberts reply as to mean that as long as the lug accepts American Wire Gage wire, then 2 under the lug would be acceptable. Even though the lug will accept multiple conductors, does not mean it is allowed.
I agree that his reply was nebulous, but I did not want anyone to assume you can double tap.


I agree the terminal would need to be listed for two conductors.

The only time two wires can be installed under a single screw or lug is when the terminal is identified for this purpose.
Neutral and equipment grounding lugs for panelboards are often suitable for two and sometimes three wires.

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Neutrals should be one per hole. Grounding conductors can be multiples if listed for such.

I believe the intent of the one comment was that if two conductors fell within the size range of the lug it was acceptable. This would not be true.


I concur. That would be ‘1 circuit neutral conductor’ per termination on a panel board neutral bus bar.
In 2002 the NEC adopted the change to the code regarding double tapped neutrals. Prior 2002 UL 67 was not listed if my memory serves me well.