I was called out to investigate 14 I-joists in the basement of a new house under construction. The owner complained to the builder these joists were darker with black and white spots. I arrived and it was obvious these joist were stored outside for an extended period of time bundled for shipment like in the photo below:
The following photos show these joist already in place;
Using a screwdriver I demonstrated to the home owner and the contractor on the good I-Joists I could not poke the screwdriver through the web with considerable force. Then I proceeded to poke holes in the darken joists as the contractor’s face turned white. He told the homeowner it was only a little mold and he sprayed it with a fungicide. Turns out significant dry rot fungus had developed where the flanges were touching the web when bundled. (see first photo above)
That is sad to think a builder would put them in a new home. The adhesive and the OSB have been compromised, but I am sure that you know that. It will be interesting what you come up with for a repair.
At least that one was at the end of the joist and not picking up a floor load.
Were there others like that in the floor system? Can’t imagine how a contractor would not know that this material is defective and should not have been used.
Yes, there were few others that were weathered. As well as an LVL that got wet and appeared to have some compression. This photo was not as clear so I did not post it before. I called them all out for an SE to have a go. (I know the double hanger is missing in this photo )
I can’t find the photo’s, but I did a pre-drywall on a home where all of the OSB subfloor had been saturated and then later dried. It had swollen or expanded so much it looked like someone had screwed down a sponge.
Back in my HVAC project management days, the guys were running CSST on an apartment building at the same time that the AHJ was doing an inspection. One of the guys went to knock out one of the pre-scored holes and instead of the 2" hole, it took out a chunk about the size of a softball. The AHJ told him that it must have been a fluke and to drill the holes instead. The next one he was able to push the 2" hole saw bit through the I-joist without turning on the drill. The AHJ then told the general to hurry up and get that section drywalled. That took place a couple of days later. A phone call was made to the investor and the sup and AHJ were both fired.
The fix was what Marcel noted. Boxed in with glue and nails.
Update, in doing some research there is no repair method I could do that would restore the water damage I-Joists due to the unknown amount of reduction in tension, compression and shear strength caused by the dry rot. In order to repair an I-Joist you typically attach lumber, plywood or OSB with nails and/or glue. The published capacity for shear strength of nailed or glued connections is based on tests performed on good lumber and plywood. There are no published properties for nailed or glued connections on water damaged wood. Repair plans published by I-Joist manufacturers is limited to localized damage in a good I-joist, where the engineering properties of the joists are still known. If you have a 2x10 joist or an I-Joist with significant water damage then replacement is your best option.
Good information. Personally I was wondering if they could somehow install more I-joists to carry the load, problem is if electrical, plumbing and mechanicals had been completed this could be an expensive fix, yet it very well may be the cheapest.
@rmayo I know this is an old thread, but just came across this same issue on a recent pre-drywall inspection. We notified the buyer and builder (Lennar - IMO one of the worst) and provided an engineering report along with the pre-drywall inspection. In this home, approximately 10% of the joists had significant damage (splitting, cracking, soft areas) and another 30-40% had grey coloration but were not soft. So overall about 50% of the joists had some level of moisture exposure.
In doing research, the joist manufacturer stated that these joists are to be kept covered and dry before installation to avoid moisture damage, but there is no quantification of what they consider to be damaged and whether or not there is an overall system wide impact for this amount of the joists to be affected at some level by the moisture damage.
Lennar provided a counter opinion from an engineer who works for the lumber distributor that says these joists are not damaged enough to affect their performance based on the load, but obviously we disagree (and anyone with eyes would also). This same engineer has signed off on incorrect cuts and holes on other jobs I have inspected where I was able to provide direct specifications of miscues, etc, so I don’t trust his opinion and he has a huge conflict of interest since he works for the lumber supplier.
Here are some of the pics. I’m wondering if you have come across anything that quantifies the damage levels in any way. Some are obvious (soft, etc) but it would make sense to me that 50% of the joists having some level of moisture issues would affect the structure overall. Any additional information you could provide would be appreciated.
Ryan, All you can do is write your report and include the information you listed. The home buyer has to decide to buy it or walk away. If the buyer has to sue the contractor to get out of the contract I am confident their lawyer can hire a more qualified structural engineer or forensic engineer. Still, it will depend on the buyer’s willingness to spend the money.
The amount of water damage vs strength reduction can be difficult to determine. Doing non-destructive load deflection testing would involve placing weights on the floor and measuring the deflection of each floor joist. Delamination of the top and bottom LVL flanges, water-damaged OSB webs, and any reduction in the glue bond strength where the web connects to the flanges all play a part in the I-Joist strength.
I ran this problem through the AI program I use and here what it said:
Water damaged I-joists pose several critical structural risks:
Delamination between OSB web and lumber flanges, severely reducing load-bearing capacity
Web material deterioration leading to buckling under compression
Fungal growth/rot that degrades wood fiber strength
Reduced shear capacity at bearing points
Compromised connection points where joists meet support beams/walls
These issues can lead to floor sagging, excessive deflection, and potential catastrophic failure. Water damaged I-joists should be evaluated by a structural engineer and typically need full replacement, as repairs are generally not reliable for engineered lumber products.
Thanks Randy. Do you think that the opposing engineer could determine that negative effects have NOT occurred without doing deflection testing? This is going to turn into a battle because the builder is refusing to return the buyers $12,000 deposit if they walk.
So this was a big builder, Lennar. They made a few mistakes and we were able to help our clients out and get them released from the contract with their deposit returned to them. First, they sent an engineer who they claimed was independent, but it turned out he actually worked for 84 Lumber, who both supplied and installed the framing. But he presented his findings as if he were totally independent, which he clearly was not. He made a few other mistakes also.
Second, when we did our second sight visit, we went through that place and checked every single joist. They had gotten worse in the time frame between the two inspections. A lot of mold had grown in that period and more soft spots and damage had presented along the bottom chords especially. We were able to take the pictures from the other engineer and show that he was intentionally avoiding soft spots when he was pick testing.
I was also able to force the AHJ to put a stop work order on the property and make them pay attention to this.
One of the more interesting things that happened was that when we did the second inspection we were comparing the stained joists vs the non stained ones and found some interesting stuff. Even though many of the joists did not have visible staining, they still had moisture damage to the bottom chords. Enough damage that we could compress the chords between our fingers and squish them. This was from glue delamination of the chords. So even though they visually looked normal in some areas, they were compromised by moisture. It’s kind of scary to think about that though. I’m definitely going to be checking for this more often on pre-drywalls in a way that I would not have done before. Everyone should be aware of this, because it probably happens more often than you think.
is there any way to catch this after construction or is it a pre-drywall inspection only? i would think on a crawl space it would be possible to see the bottom chords but not on a second floor.
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