Originally Posted By: pdickerson
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/P1120939.JPG ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/P1120941.JPG ]
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/P1120939.JPG ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/P1120941.JPG ]
Originally Posted By: rmoore
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Paul…I’m no scientist, but here’s my understanding…
Pure water is a very poor conductor of electricity. Ionizable minerals (salts, etc) disolved in the water increase its conductivity, but even salt saturated water does not come anywhere close to copper or aluminum. The neutral current will take the much easier wired path back to the service panel. I don't think you have to worry about the water in a plastic pipe being a parallel path under normal circumstances. I believe the NEC uses the term "continuous metallic path" for good reason.
The set-up, as you describe it, sounds OK...but I'm also not an electrician. Hopefully Mr Badger or Fretwell will chip in with the definitive answer.
--
Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Paul you sure are thinking
First the water, as I understand it pure distiled water will not carry electricity. Obviously what comes up out of the well is far from pure even if it is drinkable so the well water I would consider conductive.
Now you are sort of right about the metallic paths however the metallic paths have to be bonded to be a concern.
part of 2002 NEC 250.32(B)(2)
| Quote: |
| ....no continuous metallic paths bonded to the grounding system in both buildings or structures..... |
So the water does not come into this for two reasons
Water, even containing iron etc. is not considered metallic.
The water is not bonded to grounding systems.
But it's always good to see someone putting some real thought into their job.
To go on a little, a chain link fence between the buildings would be a metallic path but it would be unlikely that it would be connected (bonded) to each building grounding system so it would not be a violation.
Now what is allowed and what is a good design are not always the same thing.
--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: jpope
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In any event, the panel you have pictured does not appear to have its own GEC.
–
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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Is the bare neutral allowed in this case?
Originally Posted By: bbadger
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I had not looked at the pictures but I have now and agree with Jeff’s point about the grounding electrode.
Also the neutral can not be bare in this case.
--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: pdickerson
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Thanks All!
I wish I could remember enough physics to calculate how much current would flow through the water in the pipe. It would be a very simple equation to solve if I knew what value to assign to the water.
Originally Posted By: rcooke
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| pdickerson wrote: |
| Thanks All!
I wish I could remember enough physics to calculate how much current would flow through the water in the pipe. It would be a very simple equation to solve if I knew what value to assign to the water. |
Water does not conduct very well it is the minerals in the water that is the conductor .
This is not constant it changes from how much the well is used to the time of year.
--
Roy Cooke Sr.
http://Royshomeinspection.com
Originally Posted By: jim creegan
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Pure water is about 18,000,000 ohms/cm, Tap water can be 11,000 to 1000 ohms/cm for mineral water. (http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_05.htm) Thousands of times copper’s resistance.
JimC
Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| jim creegan wrote: |
| Pure water is about 18,000,000 ohms/cm, Tap water can be 11,000 to 1000 ohms/cm for mineral water. (http://www.jp.horiba.com/story_e/conductivity/conductivity_05.htm) Thousands of times copper's resistance.
JimC |
Thanks Jim.
This BB sure is great to be able to help one another from every where.
--
Roy Cooke Sr.
http://Royshomeinspection.com
Originally Posted By: Aron Jacobs
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NEC violations are as follows:
[QUOTE]
| Quote: |
| 200.6 (C) Flexible Cords. An insulated conductor that is intended for use as a grounded conductor, where contained within a flexible cord, shall be identified by a white or gray outer finish or by methods permitted by 400.22. |
The cable feeding the panel has a white conductor that has not been reidentified.
| Quote: |
| 250.32 Buildings or Structures Supplied by Feeder(s) or Branch Circuit(s).
(A) Grounding Electrode. Building(s) or structure(s) supplied by feeder(s) or branch circuit(s) shall have a grounding electrode or grounding electrode system installed in accordance with 250.50. |
There is no grounding electrode for this building.
| Quote: |
| 408.34 (A) Lighting and Appliance Branch-Circuit Panelboard. A lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard is one having more than 10 percent of its overcurrent devices protecting lighting and appliance branch circuits.
408.36 Overcurrent Protection. (A) Lighting and Appliance Branch-Circuit Panelboard Individually Protected. Each lighting and appliance branch-circuit panelboard shall be individually protected on the supply side by not more than two main circuit breakers or two sets of fuses having a combined rating not greater than that of the panelboard. |
This panel board has three breakers that is being used. One of these breakers is on a circuit that is utilizing the neutral and is less than thirty amps. This is 33.33% of the over current devices therefore requiring that this panel have a main.
| Quote: |
| 210.8(2) Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use |
In the original post there was mention of a receptacle that will be required to have GFCI protection.
--
Aron Jacobs
Electrical Contractor
Electrical Instructor
North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Ready Kilowatt
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The main protecting the subpanel is in the main panel at the house no?
Originally Posted By: rcooke
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| Ready Kilowatt wrote: |
| The main protecting the subpanel is in the main panel at the house no? |
Ready Kilowatt
NACHI Member: No
Is this in error?
Location: Califorxxxxxx
Posts: 1
Joe you spelling is not getting any better and you language is not very nice either,.
--
Roy Cooke Sr.
http://Royshomeinspection.com