Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
According to its operating instructions, it applies an actual 12 amp load and “extrapolated” for a 15 and 20 amp measurements.
Its actually a circuit that isn't used much other than for a lamp. I'm still playing with it and learning how to use it. This was the worst drop in the house.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: phinsperger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Most plausable causes;
1. load on the circuit (which you have ruled out)
2. undersize wire
3. lenght of run to long (as Scott inquired)
5. voltage leakage
6. damaged wire such as a nic
7. bad connections a) at the utility pole
b) at the panel(s)
c) within junction boxes
d) at the outlet
#6 and 7 can cause overheating and possibly a fire so for safety sake I would say, yes, it should be reported. If you pull your gun you got be ready to pull the trigger 
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpope wrote:
Now that I'm using this thing (hear that Jerry?).
Do we consider this much of a voltage drop as something to be reported?
There was no load on this circuit (I know because it is my house). Considering that less than 5% is expected, this seems excessive.
Excellent man, excellent!
Yes.
While the NEC addresses voltage drop, it does not address voltage drop.
Got that?
Okay, I'll try it this way. The NEC, in a Fine Print Note (which are non-enforceable) RECOMMENDS that the voltage drop be less than 5%. All electrical professionals I have talked with and read state that, while voltage drop is "unenforceable', that 8% voltage drop and higher indicates a problem in the circuit.
Today's house (new construction) had several receptacle outlets which read 17% and over. Yet, in those same rooms, other receptacle outlets read less than 6%-8%, and one room had one which read 3.4% with a 14.5% as the next receptacle.
This is how I addressed them (and how I always address them).
VOLTAGE DROP MEASURED: 8.7% AT 15 AMP; WHILE THIS IS NOT AN ACTUAL CODE ITEM AND IS AN UNENFORCEABLE NOTE TO THE CODE, ALL PROFESSIONAL ELECTRICAL EXPERTS ACKNOWLEDGE THAT VOLTAGE DROP OF 8% OR MORE INDICATES A PROBLEM; THIS IS PROBABLY CAUSED BY ?BACKSTABBING? THE CONDUCTORS INTO THE DEVICES (RECEPTACLES AND SWITCHES); THE NEC STATES THAT AS LONG AS THE VOLTAGE DROP ?does not exceed 5 percent, will provide reasonable efficiency of operation?, THUS, VOLTAGE DROP IN EXCESS OF 5% IS CONSIDERED TO *NOT* PROVIDE REASONABLE EFFICIENCY OF OPERATION;
Well, IF 5% is considered that it WILL provide reasonable efficiency of operation, and nothing was said about 5.1%, and 5.1% is not included in that "reasonable efficiency of operation" range, I can only assume it will not, otherwise it would also have been included. Guilty by exclusion.
5% is good, 50% is bad - agreed?
5% is good, 40% is bad - agreed?
5% is good 30% is bad - agreed?
5% is good, 20 % is bad - agreed?
5% is good, 10% is bad - agreed?
5% is good, ... okay, where is the "is not good", i.e., "is bad" line drawn, if not at the 5% is good line?
Give me a number we can reference. I can give you a 5% number which is referenced, and has been referenced, for many years.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jerry what percentage of house do you find with more that 5% VD?
I am going to guess it is a very large number. 
How do you sleep at night with all that is wrong in peoples homes?  
Just kidding with you Jerry, not everything is a big deal. (At least in my not so humble opinion )
Report it, don't report it, the test means little as the it all depends on the how heavy the load is on the circuit.
You test with 12 amps of load on a 15 amp circuit, but in use a single duplex outlet almost never gets loaded that heavily.
Now if this is new construction and the contract for the EC had a specification that voltage drop could not exceed 5% with 80% loading at the furthest point on the circuit you certainly have something to report. This is a typical specification I have to meet at the jobs we do, many times this means 10 AWG for 20 amp circuits.
FWIW most UL standards require utilization equipment to operate + or - 10% However that is the total variation, the 5% VD in the structure and any variation by the power company.
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike Parks wrote:
Not to insult anyone but how is this part of a HI's job?
If you have a EE or a license or a certification that is one thing.
This is outside of a home inspector's qualifications.
Do you use a Guass meter or a Meggar?
Mike P.
A suretest is a far different tool than a mega or a gauss meter.
If someone is not qualified to use a suretest they are not qualified to use a table lamp either. 
Don't you simply plug a suretest into an outlet?
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: Guest This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Just about any backstabbed receptacle I’ve ever tested has at least a 7 or 8% VD.
I indicate VD of 10% or more on my report and suggest an evaluation to at least determine cause. If nothing is above 10%, I don't even acknowledge that VD was observed.
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob Badger wrote:
Jerry what percentage of house do you find with more that 5% VD?
To restate your question: What percentage of houses do I find with less than 5% VD?
Basically 100%. There are high voltage drop receptacles next to low voltage drop receptacles. That indicates the CIRCUIT (length, resistance, etc. of the circuit conductors themselves) IS NOT the problem. That the problem is ... Chad nailed it -
Chad Fabry wrote:
Just about any back stabbed receptacle I've ever tested has at least a 7 or 8% VD.
When the electricians pull out the receptacles, pull out the back stabbed conductors, place them under the screws, the HIGH voltage drop goes away.
Okay, what is the easiest way to eliminate most VD problems, then?
Install 12 AWG conductors for 15 amp circuits instead of using 14 AWG. How does this solve the problem when I just stated that the CIRCUIT is not the problem?
Because 12 AWG cannot be back stabbed into the holes sized for 14 AWG. THAT solves MOST voltage drop problems.
Now, with that in agreement (I suspect you will agree that the cause is the back stabbed connections), would you want KNOWN POOR CONNECTIONS to be left in half of the devices in the house?
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
bbadger wrote:
If someone is not qualified to use a suretest they are not qualified to use a table lamp either. 
Don't you simply plug a suretest into an outlet?
Yes Bob. It's a pretty simple device and it measures line voltage, voltage drop, ground to neutral voltage and line impedance for each line (G,N,H).
The first screen gives the wiring analysis.
Click through menus give information on the other conditions. Plus it has built in GFCI and AFCI testers.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
For the best part of $300 this thing should come out and fix your wiring problems
If you do know the routing of the circuit you should be able to track down the weak connections pretty fast. In fact you should be able to deduce the routing once you map all the outlets by the V/D. That sounds like a good job for some kid who doesn't get bored easily.
