I am curious if anyone has come across situation where builder would not allow home owner to have a home inspector at his pre-delivery inspection. I had an inspection today where the client had called Tarion about the builder not allowing an inspector to be present and they told him there was nothing they could do about it.
His lawyer told him that if he wanted the house he would have to accept that they would not allow a home inspector to be present. This is a first for me and wonder if it is a change in Tarion’s policy or just a lack of enforcement.
Has anyone else encountered this issue in Ontario?
Not uncommon…it’s technically and legally still the builders/contractors home until the final “legal paper and financial side” of work is completed.
My suggestion offer to do a 30 day inspection and a year end inspection after the client takes possession. Than knock them out with what you find! I have also performed the inspection the day after possession.
Just a few options…but unless the purchaser had a presigned agreement (proper New Home Warranty form) for you to act as their representative…you are at the builder’s mercy.
Pre-Delivery-Inspections are by design nothing more than a public relation gesture during which a purchaser is ushered through the home to confirm in one hour or less that the kitchen and bathroom fixtures have been installed as per contract, and that wall and floor surfaces have been finished as specified. Builders’ representatives are well trained to list only minor shortcomings or incomplete items. The shorter the list of recorded deficiencies - the better their standings with Tarion.
BTW: Tarion is nothing more than a toothless warranty corporation which is entirely financed by Ontario new home builders. Their involvement is certainly not impartial when it comes to protecting the interest of new home buyers.
RUDOLF REUSSE - Home Inspector since 1976 - Retired
Not sure what the HWP is in ON but in AB I found out by experience that if the inspection is carried out before taking possession the HWP will insist that all defects are fixed. If the inspection takes place after possession the HWP will use their 270 plus pages of excuses as the guide to determine what has to be fixed. Some of this stuff does not meet the ABC.
When the contract to purchase must call for an independent inspection before taking possession. I would expect the same applies in all jurisdictions.
Tarion has its’ Construction Performance Guidelines that is used to determine “warranty” issues. In my opinion, as Vern stated "some of the stuff does not meet “code”. It addresses a number of cosmetic issues, such as visible defects based on their performance guideline criteria.
Tarion Has better protection the we as Home Inspectors do .
I think one year and they are clear .
We for a lot less money are on the hook for at least two years after they discover what we missed .
This could be ten years when they make this discovery .
Auto Insurance now has limited Liability .
You get hurt and the Lawyers want nothing to do with you there is not any profit for them to defend you .
What is a Pre-Delivery Inspection?
The PDI represents one of your first opportunities to view your new home in its completed state. Your builder’s representative will guide you or your designate* through a comprehensive inspection and show you how to operate the systems in your home, such as ventilation, plumbing and heating.
During the PDI, you or your designate should identify any damaged, incomplete or missing items as well as anything which is not operating properly. You should ensure that your builder’s representative records these conditions on the PDI Form to verify that they existed prior to occupancy. If you or your designate cannot assess something because it has not yet been installed or completed, have this noted on the PDI Form as well.
Yes but have always been able to convince the builder it is his best interest to allow me to do the Inspection .
Never failed I do have hard hat and safety boots on when I talk to him.
Always pleasant stay cool and calm and let him know what experience I have .
Tarion are a bunch of thieves. There warrenty is useless. I have 2 friends involved in court with them. Basically unless the house is about to collapse they dont cover it. Both my buddies couldnt bring thier own home inspectors either before delivery. They have their own inspectors and it all seems a bit shady.
Once you’ve loaded it, pres “CTRL + F” - the “find” window come up. Search for “Proxy”. I’ve never had any trouble. I keep a hard hat and steel toes just in case, but never had to put 'em on. I think I’ll print this page just in case…
Excerpt from Tarion’s site -
[FONT=Arial][size=2][FONT=Verdana] PDI AND DESIGNATE
[/FONT][/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial,Bold][size=2]Who may be a “designate”?
[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]The purchaser may put forward any person as a designate. The designate may be another member
of the family or a friend, or may be, for example, a home inspector or engineer. The designate is
there either to be a proxy for the homeowner or to provide the homeowner with advice or both.
[/size][/FONT]**[FONT=Arial][size=2]What should I do if a purchaser and/or their designate does not attend the PDI?
**[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]Tarion‟s expectation is that every builder will use their best efforts to arrange with each purchaser a
[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]mutually convenient time to conduct the PDI with the purchaser and/or the purchaser[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]‟s designate.
[/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]The builder’s best efforts should include:
[/size][/FONT][FONT=Symbol][size=2] [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]Contacting the purchaser well in advance to set up a mutually convenient time to conduct the
[/size][/FONT][FONT=Symbol][size=2] [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]Providing the purchaser with a few reasonable choices of date and time for the PDI; and
[/size][/FONT][FONT=Symbol][size=2] [/size][/FONT][FONT=Arial][size=2]Explaining to the purchaser that he/she can send a designate instead of attending the PDI
personally or bring a designate with him/her.
Good one Mark All should print some copies and give One to the builder with your name and info on the bottom.
That should help to let him know why he should let you do your job .
Again be polite and firm
In response Roger, I have encounter this approach only once in Waterloo, Ontario so the purchaser had me attend as a friend looking at the house. The purchaser was quite upset being told he could not inspect but needed to rely on the builders representative to go through the P.D.I.
NOW ROGER I just came across this
The interview for the Craigslist job posting for home inspector Did not identify he was a Realtor. Personally I had the impression he was a home inspector himself. He conducted an interview provided the information for P.D.I. expectations: from duration, items and how many inspections per day. Paul identified the P.D.I. was expected to be performed within 30 minutes. The inspector was expected to do 4 to 5 inspections per day and the builder would compensate the inspector $ 40 per inspection is what Paul D’Abruzzo claimed. Thank god I recorded this conversation. A 30 minute P.D.I. is inadequate and only tarnishes the image of any home inspector who participates. I understand the market can be slow but participating in this type of nefarious activity hurts not just the new home buyers but tarnishes the image of all home inspectors. What happened to ethics?
Roger it would appear builders are coming up with new and bizarre ways to manipulate new home buyers all the time. What happened to good building practices and honest customer service.
Personally, I am going to stay away from this person
My experience with some Tarion Warranty officials have a tendency of misleading the public - I can say this because I have the court transcripts to support my statement. In my opinion the person below is no different and highly unethical.
Office: (905) 361-9098
Rock Star Real Estate :: 3310 South Service Rd. East, Ste 300, Burlington, ON L7N 3M6 :: (905) 361-9098
In closing it was only by chance I recognized the interviewers name from Linkedin he never identified himself as an agent and gave me the impression he was a home inspector hiring for his busy period.
Do any other home inspectors have similar situations out there.
Making: Tarion Warranty Corporation Accountable for their actions or inactions which help in making builder accountable, especially when the only members of Tarion are the registered builders.
So to answer your question Roger no, you did not see a change in Tarion Warranty Policy, all you saw was Tarion’s true colours.
I would suggest your clients still have you go back to do the inspection. As we all know just because it’s newly constructed does not mean it has been done right. I would suggest you encourage your client(s) to negotiate directly with their builder to resolve any deficiencies because in my opinion the Tarion Warranty Corporation warranty is not worth the paper it is written on.
In my case, Roger I was lucky. I was allowed to remain by the builder’s agent to perform my inspection in your case but you were denied the right to attend. In my opinion a direct conflict with your clients rights as consumers. I would suggest your clients still have you go back to do the inspection. As we all know just because it’s newly constructed does not mean it has been done right. I would suggest you encourage your client to negotiate with their builder to resolve any deficiencies because in my opinion the Tarion Warranty Corporation warranty is not worth the paper it is written on.
Just a personal update I was almost asked to leave a property last week when performing a P.D.I… Reason for ushering me off the property because I wanted to present my findings to the clients before they signed off on the P.D.I. Eventually, we agreed to allow me to present my findings which were specific to the builder’s P.D.I. criteria. In the end the representative for the builder thank me for being reasonable allowing all of us to move forward. The clients were satisfied with the leadership skills exercised to preserve their consumer rights. (The right to make an informed decision)
Since no one monitors Tarion Warranty Corporation it would be advisable to support groups like Canadians for Properly Built Homes who continue to pressure the Ontario Government to expand the jurisdictional powers of the Ombudsman of Ontario to incorporate Tarion Warranty Corporation into their mandate so the Ombudsman can review Tarion’s actions and inactions.
Tarion is comprised of only registered builders, while at the same time Tarion is authorized by the province to administer and enforce the O.N.H.W.P. in theory it sounds like Tarion is protecting consumers, but in your case your clients were done a disservice by restricting your access. Both Tarion and the builder have demonstrated their complete contemned for principles behind consumer protection. “The right to make an informed decision”
It all sounds too much like the fox looking after the hen house.
Hope your clients have you over to perform their 30 day and 1 year inspection
Take care Roger
I see several companies running around with TARION writing on the side of the vehicle. People fall for it hook line and sinker but like all crooked dealings they all come to an end at some time.
Too bad it is at the expense of many.
It all comes down to Caveat Emptor (buyer beware). I would not buy any property that I can not have free and open access before buying. If I am prevented from bringing my inspector or anybody of my choosing, I would assume that the builder is hiding something thus the deal is not going to happen.