Warped vinyl siding

[drange (Dave Range, CMI)]

I can feel your pain, David. You can buy them books and buy them more books and all they want to do is look at the pictures.

Dave

[belliott (Bob Elliott, 450.0002662)]

If you guys put all that in a report it is sure to confuse the poor client trying to make a fast purchase decision.

Reminds me of a food scientist being interviewed on a radio show last week with the guy being asked if the pink slime being added to the ground beef in schools now (approved ) is dangerous.
20 minutes later with the guy getting all scientific the poor radio host still had no idea.

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI)]

@belliott

If you guys put all that in a report it is sure to confuse the poor client trying to make a fast purchase decision.

Reminds me of a food scientist being interviewed on a radio show last week with the guy being asked if the pink slime being added to the ground beef in schools now (approved ) is dangerous.
20 minutes later with the guy getting all scientific the poor radio host still had no idea.

That’s why you should limit your reports to 80 pages Bob.

[belliott (Bob Elliott, 450.0002662)]

@ccurrins

That’s why you should limit your reports to 80 pages Bob.

That’s different as my reports are HIP with searching made easy and lots of photos.
Inspector speak is tough no mater how many pages.

Guess you do not get it.

[dhalligan (Don Halligan, CMI)]

This home is in Fort Dodge, Iowa. 42° 29’ 51" N / 94° 10’ 4" W
The siding appeared to be sucked in rather than bowed out.
Don

[ecrofutt (Erby Crofutt)]

Um, OK David. Got it. Focused light doesn’t produce heat.

@dandersen

The “magnifying glass” analogy is not at all similar to what is going on here.

A magnifying glass allows all of the electromagnetic radiation of the sun to pass through the lens, that warps and focuses the radiation to a fine point at the proper focal one. The result is a light so bright you can hardly look at it!

On the siding scenario there is no such concentrated focus of light and heat. It is reflected off of the flat surface of the glass and actually becomes diffused and less intense than that coming from the sun. Reflection off of the glass is actually diffused rather than concentrated. The geometry of the reflected radiation further disperses the concentration of solar electromagnetic radiation.

[dandersen (David Andersen, TN HI# 40)]

Lets just quit twisting terminology around. We all know that light is from heat, and heat produces light.

My only point is that all this crap is about the frequency of the light that is causing the problem, not focused heat onto the siding.

The fact that reflection, absorption and emissivity can melt the siding, not light passing through a window like a magnifying glass is the point.

Just trying to broaden your conceptual thinking. Not argue your terms of speech.

I don’t think that we need to bring in physics and Planck’s law.

I contributed physics to this conversation, you have contributed magnifying glasses and pictures.

Did you miss the point that most of the energy causing the siding damage can not be seen in the visible spectrum of light? DO you not know that the greatest source of energy of the electromagnetic spectrum is just beyond the color red in the visible light? How can you take a picture of this when it’s not visible? Notice that the light is not on the damaged area of the siding in your photograph? Maybe you need to talk with Sir William Herschel.

[Eugene_Dean]

I am a little embarrassed to admit that this mystery has puzzled me for some time. My vinyl siding is also warping, and it is right next to some very reflective windows. I had no idea that was the cause of the damage. I guess I will have to replace my windows before I fix the siding.

http://www.starksiding.com/siding

[dandersen (David Andersen, TN HI# 40)]

Replace them with what?

[dgunn1 (Daniel Gunn)]

@dandersen

Okay, I was trying to keep this in as simplistic a form as possible.

Have you ever seen a PVC pipe bending tool?

It utilizes a lightbulb to generate infrared light which softens the PVC so it can be bent. It does not rely upon the light to produce heat, rather infrared energy which does not burn the pipe material. The lightbulb generates energy in the IR spectrum rather than generating heat within the box.

#1 PVC is very reactive to infrared radiation.

The “magnifying glass” analogy is not at all similar to what is going on here.

A magnifying glass allows all of the electromagnetic radiation of the sun to pass through the lens, that warps and focuses the radiation to a fine point at the proper focal one. The result is a light so bright you can hardly look at it!

On the siding scenario there is no such concentrated focus of light and heat. It is reflected off of the flat surface of the glass and actually becomes diffused and less intense than that coming from the sun. Reflection off of the glass is actually diffused rather than concentrated. The geometry of the reflected radiation further disperses the concentration of solar electromagnetic radiation.

It is perceived that the heat involved in warping the siding comes from the sum of the solar exposure directly from the sun and that which is reflected off of the glass.

If this were the case, this condition would not occur in Alaska and Canada in the wintertime (as it does).

In most cases you cannot even see the solar reflection on the siding when this event occurs.

Why?

Again, PVC is reactive to infrared radiation.

Energy in the infrared spectrum is not visible to your eyes, therefore you don’t see it on the side of the house.

Next, electromagnetic radiation in the infrared spectrum does not pass through glass. So a much smaller amount of the sun’s energy is reflected off of the glass while the rest of the energy passes through the glass and heats the interior of the home.

This reflected infrared radiation is absorbed by the PVC siding and the temperature of the siding increases and causes the melting.

My statement that this is IR radiation versus reflected heat was a layman’s explanation indicating that this is not the same as having a barbecue grill up against the siding where the heat generated from the grill melts the siding. What actually causes the siding to melt is energy which is absorbed by the vinyl material, not what temperature it is subjected to.

http://i572.photobucket.com/albums/ss162/dandersen_02/siding2.jpg

In this picture you can calculate the orientation of the sun that causes the damage to the siding. The higher up the wall the damage goes, the lower the sun elevation. This shows that the orientation of the sun is low in the sky which would coincide with the winter months in the northern hemisphere. If this condition was happening in the summertime when the outdoor air temperature is high and the sun is intense, the damage would be focused at the bottom of the wall due to the sun’s elevation. As we can see in this photograph, this is not the case.

So the combination of air temperature and reflected solar temperature cannot be supported by these angles.

That, sir, was impressive.