Originally Posted By: charper This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I’m still somewhat confused concerning 18" height for water heaters. I say that ALL water heaters in garages should be 18" whether gas or electric. Code states Ignition Source". Builders here only elevate gas and not electric. But in reality electric water heaters have “ignition sources” as well just not a flame. Do you guys right up just gas if not raised or electric as well?
Originally Posted By: jsavino This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Any heating system containing an open spark (gas or oil fired) need to be raised 18 inches above the floor. Even if the units are located in the basement, with an entrance to the basement from the garage. Electric does not need to raised because there is no ignition source.
Originally Posted By: evandeven This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
From a post by Jerry Peck at Inspection News:
IGNITION SOURCE. A flame, spark or hot surface capable of igniting flammable vapors or fumes. Such sources include appliance burners, burner ignitions and electrical switching devices.
Ever seen a burned out element on a water heater? Certainly fits the above definition of an ignition source.
P2801.6 Water heaters installed in garages. Water heaters having an ignition source shall be elevated such that the source of ignition is not less than 18 inches (457 mm) above the garage floor.
Underlining is mine.
M1307.3 Elevation of ignition source. Appliances having an ignition source shall be elevated such that the source of ignition is not less than 18 inches (457 mm) above the floor in garages. For the purpose of this section, rooms or spaces that are not part of the living space of a dwelling unit and that communicate with a private garage through openings shall be considered to be part of the garage.
I believe it was the Uniform Building code which specifically included electric water heaters in this.
Quote:
Electric does not need to raised because there is no ignition source.
According to the above, it does need to be raised. The "ignition source" is required to be raised 18 inches above the garage floor.
I am waiting to hear from Rheem about the exact clarification on this.
Stay tuned....
-- Eric Van De Ven
Owner/Inspector
Magnum Inspections Inc.
I get paid to be suspicious when there is nothing to be suspicious about!
www.magnuminspections.com
Originally Posted By: cbuell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I really can’t see any possibility of arcing in an electric water heater. If the element “arcs” it is inside a sealed tank. I have never seen any building inspector require the elevation of electric hot water heaters.
– It is easier to change direction than it is to forget where one has been.
The electric water heater HEATING ELEMENT is sealed, the connections are not. Has any HI even seen elements burned up at the connections? Probably all HIs have, that is caused by arcing and sparking.
The old Uniform Plumbing code even specified it, the new ICC just alludes to it.
It is all contained in that thread, some very good discussion about it.
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
In the mechanical code it defines an appliance as something for which this code has specific regulations. That would not include an electric appliance.
The IRC is a little different, however, because the definition is the same, but in the IRC an electric device does have specific regulations. I really believe this is in error, because the provision and the definition are ver-batum from the IMC. I don't beleive the intent is to require elevation unless it is gas fired.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
bbadger wrote:
... what is the minimum height for an electric outlet in a dwelling unit garage? 
That has been the subject of quite a few heated debates on the ICC Code board. IMHO it is a good idea and good practice to place outlets at least 18" above a garage floor, but it's just not directly regulated by the ICC/NEC codes for residential garages (other than you can not put them on the garage floor). Those that enforce the 18" height requirement for outlets do so under the general intent provisions ... which is a real stretch in my book ...
bbadger wrote:
If you think an electric water heater is a ignition source an outlet must be one also.
You bet they are ... ... thats why you need very special outlets for Class-1 Div-1/2 areas that are an explosion risk. Locally we had a methane recovery building explode and kill a bunch of workers because it had standard receptacles and switches ...
The IRC provisions apply to all appliances ... including electrical water heaters, and not just fuel fired ones. That is why many enforce the 18" outlet height requirement. But IMHO, until it's directly covered by the codes I will not enforce a stretch of general intent provisions (wearing one of my other hats).
Just my opinion and 2-nickels ...
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
roconnor wrote:
bbadger wrote:
If you think an electric water heater is a ignition source an outlet must be one also. 
You bet they are ... ... thats why you need very special outlets for Class-1 Div-1/2 areas that are an explosion risk. Locally we had a methane recovery building explode and kill a bunch of workers because it had standard receptacles and switches ...
Yeah I know that, that is why I asked the question.
Presently I can install an outlet as low on a dwelling unit garage as I want.
We do not run into water heaters in garages here in New England, the pipes tend to freeze.
Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
bbadger wrote:
Presently I can install an outlet as low on a dwelling unit garage as I want.
I don't disagree with that and don't see a significant hazard for a residential garage, even though I think it's better practice to keep them up off the floor.
The primary fire hazard in a residential garage is ignition of debris and oil/gas soaked rags and other items near the floor ... therefore the model code restrictions on height of appliances.
Gasoline fumes and natural gas rise, so IMHO wall receptacles near the floor are not any more a hazard than others in a home. Now, if ya have LPG, where that gas pools near the floor you could have trouble ... that stuff has blown houses off the foundations ... 
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: wcampbell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
For those that think that an electric water can’t ark, think about this: The terminals where the wire connects to the heating element is NOT sealed. If the terminal screw is not tighten correctly, then YES there could be an ark.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Of course an electric water heater can arc, any electric appliance can arc.
If you happen to plug something into an outlet with the load already on, there will be an arc.
If you happen to vacuum your car in the garage you have a continuous arc produced by the brushes in the motor.
My point is that the outlet and the vacuum are both allowed and are common. If you must raise the electric water heater to get out of the "zone" then logic would say these other items would have to get out of that same zone. 
Originally Posted By: jpeck This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
bbadger wrote:
My point is that the outlet and the vacuum are both allowed and are common. If you must raise the electric water heater to get out of the "zone" then logic would say these other items would have to get out of that same zone. 
Bob
Bob,
Down here, it is rare to find a garage receptacle within 18" to 24" of the garage floor.
Okay, about about this: At what height are the photo electric cells for garage doors required to be mounted? It is a photo electric beam, but it makes or breaks the circuit through an electronic switch. IS that switch "sealed" in there?
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
code, or MEET code, or are more or less GRANDFATHERED - BUT - “IN MY OPINION” I feel they are a safety hazard, OR I believe they would benefit from improvement, replacement, repair OR Whatever!!
