“4-Framing is not wet, but also have 19% humidity conductive to mold growth.”
19% moisture content (MC) is the code minimum (if code is being applied) for framing materials. This MC was chosen as (1) there is not enough moisture to initiate mould growth and (2) most of the wood shrinkage from drying has already taken place.
"SUSPECT: Drainage"
Why??? It’s an interior surface only mould problem!!
“Framing: directly on the surface. No clearance.”
Not a problem except in people’s minds. The document* you refer to requires no aiir space behind the studs or insulation…
**- "The next step is to install a wood-frame wall in the basement. There are two approaches. You can *install the new wall flush to the old wall using 38 × 89 mm (2 × 4 in.) lumber." - “The insulation must be tight against the foundation wall”
“Styrofoam sheeting 3 feet below grade is the normal procedure.”
Where is this the normal procedure?..not in my area.
Maybe your theory applies to yourself only. It’s quite amusing that Patrick had a grasp of the simple concept of my explanation until trained folks chimed in. Now Kathy is grasping the concepts and you are trying to direct her to whom on this thread that presented a simple but complete answer in what… Post #3…s
Since I obviously, in your mind, can’t be correct and am slowing you down…your theory is correct for yourself…
Q.E.D. - “quod erat demonstrandum” (“that which was to be demonstrated”),
Love your simplicity.
Knew you be here in a flash.
Brian education is just that. Rounded education for new home inspection depends highly on give equal attention to fact, not verbal fiction. As you just stated.
It will be harder for others that have learned over 15-20-30 years in a system that did not teach all the facts and had a lot of info passed along at the street level!!
Brian all building engineers learned from the street level guys.
Unless you where building too???
I think that statement is unjustified because anyone with an interest in learning openly will study residential building science and any other means they can.
Let us remember the world is not perfect.Nor is every home .
See I remember your entry onto the InterNACHI SCENES AS WILL AS MINE.
Kathy you are going great.
I will ask you to go to mentors for help. Reach out. Many here want you to succeed as I do.
Please spend equal time on everything.
The complex building sciences will fall into place once you understand structure and HVAC. Take you time to get working then the advanced study later.
Defect and deficiency.
Report what you observe Cathy. Do not have to understand it yet.
Just your observations.
Mr.Lawrson as soon as I let my post out and clicked on the key I though or no.
There are many types of vapor barrier , venting and non venting. Sorry simple way to put it.
Lots of VDB and VB and even reflective barrier out there.
Great thanks for the PDF files Claude.
Great stuff for the hard drive.
Brian all this was covered quite extensively on one of CONDO BOB"S threads. I am to tired to go looking for it.
Please remember I am a sport fisherman. I read on the techniques for catching fish. Deals extensively with bating and structure. It relaxes my busy mind.
Also remember that most here are starting there education as well as myself in the proper technical words to use to the residential building practices I have been taught through application.
Theory and application remember.
So when the bate is out leave it alone.
Brian I turned this all around on you.
I had just sent you an email telling you I will post some building science questions on the InterNACHI BOARD.
We went though the pratice and I wanted to see what I already knew. InterNACHI MEMBERS OUT HEIGHT YOUR INTELECT 2 TO 1.
I email you, we go through the study and still you are so egocentrically driven you have to bite the bait.
Like I said Brien. I will out wit you so please sir do not doubt any ones ability at INACHI.
The very association you leech to for pompous attitude.
I love Roy Cooke because he has keen wit. Wit trumps any player on the building, educational, vocational grounds BAR NONE MATE.
So give me wit over your ability to retain and remember the written word any day.
Trouble shouters are the backbone to any team. I am a team player where you are a single player boaster.
Be gone fly.
.
Got it backwards, Robert. The best building scientists learn from studying the failures that have happened in the field. The failures are the result of poor knowledge by many from home designers/architects to the builders and trades…I know… I have been studying and sometimes teaching this stuff as well being hired or referred by architects/others on projects.
If you can’t understand this field…your loss or more correctly…your client’s loss will be when you tell them to dig up and correct their drainage system when it is not the problem.
3 summers ago, I was called in to a new home with an unfinished basement summer condensation problem late on a Friday. The builder, a local franchisee for a large pre-built home manufacturer, had already dug up part of the foundation at the insistance of the stubborn owner!! My solution: over the week-end, move the dehumidifier closer to the problem wet corner (with a drilled well cold water pressure tank creating the cool microclimate and thus, condensation) and set a floor fan to blow dry warm air into the corner…problem solved!! Got a satisfactory “thank-you” call late on Monday afternoon.
(PS- the franchise owner had talked to us in 1989 (when he lived in Fredericton, NB) about being trained by us to be an HI…he decided at that time to get into the building business instead)
The worst case of this on a small home that I saw was Moncton in 1987-8 when doing an inspection for Relonet, a relocation firm then out of Dallas, Texas:
Got to the fairly new (4-5 years old) house to find it having been dug up all the way around (including moving a deck away from the house) and new drain tile installed. On the interior, a section of basement drywall had been removed to expose a normal shrinkage crack that had leaked. The consulting engineer had taken and tested concrete core samples…no problem with the mix and concrete strength! All this had cost about $8,000 for a single, simple, normal shrinkage crack leak (no other moisture/leakage problems) that should’ve cost $3-400 to repair plus another $200 or so for drywall repair!!!
BTW: Residential building science may not be as simple as you wish it to be. Knowing the science and facts is a good start. From there it is like medicine and good IAQ work, it becomes more than knowing facts: great experience becomes necessary to practice the art with confidence and assurance!!
HA HA HA HA
Fell for the bait.Less than 2 hours.
I wait 7 hours for muskie and sometimes days for that big sturgeon. HA HA HA.
Brian like I have said. I have respect for your impressive background in the building sciences.
I bumped heads with you guys in the field.
Just wish you would help in a simpler fashion.
Basics are the key that unlocks the door to the first steps in the thinking and learning process. A bad teacher turns off his pupils, RIGHT?
WOW THAT WAS RICH.
Sorry for the " Brian all building engineers learned from the street level guys."
Look the 2 fields exchange thought freely Brian. Transparency and education.
EXAMPLE: My friend is a GC and is given plains to build a log home. 1.500,000.00.
Why him, no one else can do it and refine the blueprints and give detailed written response to the projects principle parties involved. Architect and engineers.
So the architect drew and he used the engineeringprincipals with building sciences ( ADVANCED HVAC ) but still it was flawed and need refinement and a case study.
He had to communicate with the developer to have drawing manipulated so they work.
He gave all principal parties involved **his observations **of the systems that where installed after he ran everything before the handover to the client.
He is a devoted builder.
Also understands all the sub trades that are used in building residential buildings. It may very day by day. Mood swings, emotions, and many complexities to a human ( alcohol and drug abuse ) can effect the translation of the plans on paper to the final product.
They have to be managed well and your eyes to your plans for the day can change.
The engineers and architect are only part of an over all cooperation. It is a relationship Brian. That’s all.
So the home inspector VISUALLY OBSERVES and reports on his observation. that is all for the beginning.
See my point Brian. I can draw many more
Thanks Robert, all this conversation has added is yet more confusion.
The point I was trying to make was that what is practiced and what the new ideas are may be different, but what the towns inspectors want to see is what they are told they want to see, and that tends to fall into the standard practice in a given area, right? So just from the 200 km that separate our home and cottage we have a difference, I need to know the standards for the given area I will be working in.
All these variants in area are what is giving this conversation fuel. I don’t know what the standard practice was in the original photo, or what it was twenty years ago when the building was constructed.
We have to work with crossing boundaries, knowing what is done here, and what is recommended, but still knowing there are possibly better ways, when it comes to new contruction you also have to factor in the towns inspections,and abide by their ruling.
Something of a catch 22 for a well trained, in the know inspector.
I do not know what to say Kathy.
WE ARE NOT CODE INSPECTORS.
Home inspection is a visual means only. Your SOP.
You are to observe for condition.
So just follow you InterNACHI protocol and everything will fall into place.
I have to stop thinking as a builder. As Brian MacNiech chuckels.
Please do me and yourself a favor Kathy. Find a mentor you can talk to or email for questions. Do not put advanced studies before the basics.
Lots of great InterNACHI paying members that will help you archive your objectives.
Need help I will try.
Be good dear.
Oh I am doing the basics first Robert, just sometimes when what I see practiced and what is in my studies differ I try to find out more, it’s natural to be that way I think, curious, this is one of those examples, my materials from CD and Nachi also differed here. I am of course sticking to my studies and will enroll in that last pesky cd course next month, to ensure I don’t miss the intake this time, LOL. I am also taking another extra electrical course through the college, which will then allow me to do more electrical courses. I have no plan to stop learning. Hopefully this isn’t an addiction, lol.
The problem I am encountering here I think is exactly what you point out, I need mentoring, I agree 100% and this is my goal, to get to mentoring. I will be joining The ACHI soon hopefully where they have a mentoring program. I appear to have itchy fingers, I need more practical, and to be able to discuss, rather than just study.
Key note Kathy.
InterNACHI uses mostly American code and case studies.
Carson Dunlop. I did not like them for there over priced work. Here is a little tip. Home reference book. http://www.carsondunlop.com/orderform/index.html
There you go. on your way to the higher education Kathy.
Look code can change by county or town.
Get my email address out from my vcard or on my website and give me a shout if you need something.
I am a senor member. You are making a good choice. Look many members here to. Please ask anyone of the many wonderful examples of the home inspection industry itself.
CMI look for that designation. Ask them. Tell them you have there address and will throw eggs at there door if they do not help. HA HA HA.
You will be fine.
…writing that down…
Shopping list,
eggs,
gas in car…
LOL, thanks Robert. It’s nice to see this discussion actually debating an issue without degenerating into a shouting match, like some do, and also allowing some assistance to newcomers, without being pointed out that we are getting away from the topic, which we may have a little…
So anyway, I have learned some things in this topic which have been helpful.
Thanks all for the help, this is clearly a topic I need to read a lot more about.
Hi Kathleen, don’t knock yourself out worrying about one region to the next county. I come from the Oakville/Burlington area…I live now near Collingwood many different things apply. My first inspection here was a cottage…it had no footings just blocks set out on level sand. After the inspection I called the local building inspector. The inspectors answer to this was / oh yes in that part of town (only the beaches) it was allowed due to the fact of the water table being so high, which translates to the township wanted the money from all the cottages being built so they let it go. Like my friend Robert says …report what you see …the eyes are your best inspection tool!
cheers Scott
