Electrical equipment shall be installed in a neat and workmanlike manner.
(A) Unused Openings.
Unused cable or raceway openings in boxes, raceways, auxiliary gutters, cabinets, cutout boxes, meter socket enclosures, equipment cases, or housings shall be effectively closed to afford protection substantially equivalent to the wall of the equipment.
Where metallic plugs or plates are used with nonmetallic enclosures, they shall be recessed at least 6 mm (? in.) from the outer surface of the enclosure.
(B) Subsurface Enclosures.
Conductors shall be racked to provide ready and safe access in underground and subsurface enclosures into which persons enter for installation and maintenance.
(C) Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections.
Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues.
There shall be no damaged parts that may adversely affect safe operation or mechanical strength of the equipment such as parts that are broken; bent; cut; or deteriorated by corrosion, chemical action, or overheating.
NOTE: I am prepared to discuss each item here on how one would would recognize that part of an installation that was not neat and workmanlike!
Let's face reality, either you are, or you are not a Mechanic!
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
My opinion FWIW as a matter of the code is “neat and workmanlike manner” means nothing and should be removed.
The rest 110.12(A), 110.12(B) and 110.12(C) are fine code articles.
Those that follow the rest of the code will produce work that meets most peoples opinion of neat and workmanlike manner.
Trades people that do not follow the code rules will often produce work that is not anyones opinion of neat and workmanlike manner and one more code rule for them to ignore will not change that.
"Neat and workmanlike manner" is only defined by opinion, some electricians from areas that use all pipe raceways feel the use of NM is unworkmanlike.
My point is you can not have a document that carries the force of law that is based on an opinion.
The NFPA states the purpose of the NEC is safety and goes further by telling us the NEC is not a design manual, show me a picture of some work that is both a violation of "a neat and workmanlike manner" and also unsafe and I feel confident I can find another article in the NEC that would apply.
Remember you asked and this is just one guys opinion. 
By the way I do take great pride in my work, that comes from within, not from an arbitrary rule.
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Here of a couple of photos of my work, I could use tie wraps, I could use cheaper boxes, I could not leave slack. (The slack is helpful if the placement is not correct)
The thing is I take pride in my work. 
The last photo shows what using 3/4" plaster rings with 5/8" sheet rock can do for you.
You end up with a box that is very close to flush with the surface.
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Bob,
I am asking. I will always ask. Always feel free to keep adding to conversations.
Having been around the many that know the codes, you can always tell the ones that only know the codes and the ones that have absolutely no experience with the installation at all.
I can usually tell if it was done professionally just by looking at it.
I like having the fresh breeze, especially since you have the experience which many here lack.
Originally Posted By: rpasquier This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
OK, since we are discussing neat and workman like etc.
A friend is running his own wire in his new house, with help from some electrician friends. He has run the wire diagonally through the attic, in other words it comes up through one corner and he has run it the shortest distance to the other.
One of the electricians said this is fine, the other said that it is not neat and workmanlike. So, which is it, does he run the wire along the joists and at right angles, or is it OK to run the wire diagonally across the attic?
Originally Posted By: jtedesco This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
How about saying that this installation is Sloppy?
I agree it is not "neat and workmanlike", but this issue is still not clear to many people so I say this is: a Sloppy, Dangerous, Terrible, Disgusting, Hazardous, Disgraceful, Bad, and Lousy Stinking Job!!
Originally Posted By: Bob Badger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jmyers wrote:
Bob,
I am asking. I will always ask. Always feel free to keep adding to conversations.
Joe thank you very much for those and the rest of your kind thoughts. 
I only meant I would not keep posting to this thread unless asked, not the whole NACI forum.
Joe T. pretty much knows my position so I should step back and let the HIs get in on this.
OK I can not resist, for the pictures above I agree with what Joe T said.
Quote:
I say this is: a Sloppy, Dangerous, Terrible, Disgusting, Hazardous, Disgraceful, Bad, and Lousy Stinking Job!!
It is certainly all that, and it has many violations to cite it for without resorting to neat and Workman like.
As far as this question.
Quote:
A friend is running his own wire in his new house, with help from some electrician friends. He has run the wire diagonally through the attic, in other words it comes up through one corner and he has run it the shortest distance to the other.
My opinion is it is not the NECs business as long as the 'real' code requirements are met (supports, protection from damage, ampacity etc.) and it satisfy the person paying the bill. JMO
Originally Posted By: jtedesco This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree! I once worked in the same office with an Electrical Inspector in the City of New Haven Connecticut who was called: “Mean Jimmy Meehan” and he used the words we are having trouble with to cite the set of plans when he inspected a job!
When he found that the conduit and cables were run diagonally across the room, he said that they didn't meet the plans!
I was the Assistant Electrical Inspector then, and was not sure that I agreed with him, but they say you may "win the battle but never the war" when arguing with an inspector!"
What's wrong with the "as built" set?
Sometimes things just don't go right on a job, and when those conduits enter a pullbox that is not accessible after the other trades install their ducts and pipes I can't pull my wires!, so what if the run is a little off base.
Next time try a little "honey" with the inspection department, or call me and let me talk to him, but then you will owe me a beer or two!!
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ed,
I agree, that is a nice job that you did.
Bob B,
That was my point, you having the experience in the installation department would make you a better poster than the average inspector. As you may, or may not know, I have some experience with the installation part, as well as the inspection part.
I don't know about you, but I can usually tell if the person that did the work was a professional. There are several unwritten rules they follow which one learning from a book would just have no idea of, what so ever.
Joe T,
I purposely don't automatically load those pictures because the people with dial up access tend to get a little frustrated at the amount of time it takes to load them, so they tend to stay away from these threads. By removing the IMG tags at the beginning and end of the link, it allows they to choose if they want to view those pictures.
In the future it would help that if you put pictures in a post to remove the IMG tags and you will most likely get more responses from visitors, since they won't get impatient waiting for the pictures to load.
Now back to the conversation...I agree that was pretty sloppy work. I recommended they contact an electrician to clean up the electrical work in the house. This same house had romex running through metal studs (no bushings). A receptacle located right beneath the water meter and water pipes.
Originally Posted By: jmyers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ok Bob,
I will bite. Why would it require GFCI protection if left unfinished versus no GFCI protection if finished?
I would have thought no receptacle would have been a much better choice along with running the wire up and around the pipes, instead of below the pipes.
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Ed
You still look as young as the first time I saw this.
For those who do no know, Ed IS an expert in the electrical field.
You who have questions about electrical are blessed with some quality people here. Not taking about me, I am talking about the others.
Question? Whould Ed's quaility work be consider bundling? I here that the 2005 might mak it that way!
BTW Ed how did you get a picture of my work?   
