Originally Posted By: stevelisaw This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
We purchased a home in North Canton Ohio. First time to buy in Ohio, not knowing the area asked for names of inspector from realtor. (Realty company was both the Sellers and Buyers agent btw) Only given one name who turned out missing:
1. leaking pipes in basement (small ranch home)
2. long on going water problem leaching into basement
3. leaks beneath bathroom sink ( 3)
4. Stated in report that we should get a cap and cap the chimney in off season. Upon moving in and trying to use gas log burning fireplace and smoke/fumes setting off smoke detector, went outside and found the chimney is actually Capped! (During inspection smoke alarm went off, they took it down stated we needed to get a new alarm.....when husband who is from England stated it smelled funny.....they replied it was due to being run first time for the season.)
Considering the pipes and water coming in basement will cost us $5900 to fix, how can we make sure no one ever gets the same poor service from this inspector, who has been in business a long while. (Was a very large man who wouldn't even go up on the roof nor could he fit through the opening for the attic and just popped his head in stating the insulation was fine, but when we went in to add more.....found areas that didn't even have any insulation.)
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
A few questions. How long after the inspection before you moved in?
Was the house occupied or vacant? Were you at the inspection? Did the seller disclose leaky pipes or a water problem in the basement? I don’t understand the part about cap the chimney during the off season. Most people either have a cap on the chimney or they don’t have a cap - its not something we take on and off with the season. It keeps rain, snow, leaves and birds, etc out of our chimneys. So I’m not sure what you’re saying.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
be the case due to his size).
Not "walking" on a roof is also unacceptable unless (again) doing so would cause injury or property damage.
Not having all the facts, and based solely on your representation, I would conclude that the inspector acted (at best) negligently and did not meet his required standards.
Reporting something as if it was inspected when, in fact, it wasn't (possibly in the case of the chimney) could very well be considered a breach of contract in which case he could be held liable for damages and possibly subject to sanctions as well.
If your desire is to simply "protect" other consumers from this inspector, it may work well to contact the Better Business Bureau in your area. You may want to include the referring agent as well.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeff - look at my posting to them before we condemn another inspector. How do you or I know if the leaks started after the inspection, etc. About 65% of the expert witness work I do is for conditions that started up AFTER the inspector came and went. The chimney cap comment was off the wall - we need further info before we can say they’re right or not.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Not having all the facts, and based solely on your representation, I would conclude that the inspector acted (at best) negligently and did not meet his required standards.
There are two sides to every story. Currently we have only heard one side.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Not "walking" on a roof is also unacceptable unless (again) doing so would cause injury or property damage.
The second part of yhis statemen is the most significant. If my ladder gets me onto the roof, and its not damaged, and the slope is not too steep for me, and it's not too high... I walk it.
The highest I go up a ladder is about 14 feet. If I cant get onto a section of the roof in that span of ladder. I inspect from the ground with binoculars, and state whi I diiid not walk the roof in the report.
My life is worth more than $400
-- Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe - I’m with you. Ten years ago if I was inspecting a 3 Story house, I would often open a 2nd story window and climb out onto a gable. Rest my Little Giant Ladder across the gable get up onto the dormer - pull my Little Giant up behind me and proudly inspect the “Widows Walk” or the Tip Top of the Chimney Cap, etc. DUMB with a capital “D”.
Today if I can't get to it from the ground from my 17' Little Giant Ladder (safe working height 13' - 14') or if the roof is damp, brittle, steep, etc. I see what I can from the ground, the eaves, or with binoculars and then exclude the rest - suggesting that they get a COMPETENT ROOFER prior to closing to do the FULL TAMALE. We can't be everything to everybody.
Three times in the past 2 years have I seen local inspectors within a 50 mile circle, fall off a roof (1 roof was only 8' tall) and get so hurt in the fall that only 1 of them has been able to still do home inspections.
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeffrey -
I reread your post to those folks twice, and I see the part about "without all the facts" - BUT I also see what they see, which is words like Negligent, Breach, etc. And that is probably about as far as they'll really read. I have 6 of these type calls in my schedule to go look at right now for Attorneys or Buyers. They were called in over the past 4 weeks. They bought a house, got an inspection moved in and somewhere later down the road had a problem of some kind.
Two of these PROBLEMS are conditions they've had for over 2 years that never bothered them until they went to sell and it came up in the new buyers report. When I looked at their paperwork both conditions were either reported on in their original report or disclosed by the seller 2 years ago. THEY had not read the report or disclosure.
Three of the problems clearly did not exist at the inspection and started sometime between then and closing. Example a 2nd floor bathtub leak that leaks onto the kitchen table below. The buyer after thinking a while realized she sat at the table during the whole time the inspection was going on - you think she might have noticed water coming out of the ceiling.
One (1) of the problems was clearly present before the inspection - it showed up in the inspectors report in a photo but was not reported on.
He does 4 & 5 inspections a day and is very well liked by realestators because he knows how valuable their time is.
Four of these 6 people ended up at an Attorney because the plumber, the roofer, the other contractor or realestator told them it was CLEARLY something the HI MISSED and should have caught.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Remember our 11th commandment “Thou shall not speak ill of a fellow home inspector to anyone but a fellow home inspector, lest ill will fall upon you”.
I would like to know the answers to Dan's questions prior to making further comments. A leak under a sink can happen during the move in - move out process and they are cheap to fix. Pipes can leak at any time. And if the house was occupied it is very easy to hide a basement leakage problem.
As for walking the roof, I do it all the time here, and seldom did it in VA. I carry a 12' ladder. In VA we had many townhouses which were 3 stories above ground. I wouldn't have gone up that high if I had a ladder. I'm happy to now be living in the land of the one story house.
I once had a client come after me 2 years after the inspection because I didn't tell him his heat pump would break. Another one after six months because his toilet wouldn't flush properly. People will spend 40k on a car and not think about it, but 5k on an appreciating asset like a house and they get all kinds of mad.
Lets see what the answers are. 
Originally Posted By: stevelisaw This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
dbowers wrote:
A few questions. How long after the inspection before you moved in?
Was the house occupied or vacant? Were you at the inspection? Did the seller disclose leaky pipes or a water problem in the basement? I don't understand the part about cap the chimney during the off season. Most people either have a cap on the chimney or they don't have a cap - its not something we take on and off with the season. It keeps rain, snow, leaves and birds, etc out of our chimneys. So I'm not sure what you're saying.
Dan Bowers (Kansas City)
Inspection on October 13, 2003. Moved in (because the sellers took 30 days after closing which was 28th October 2003) on 22nd November 2003 as is common in Ohio (weird to me as in Indiana you get the keys when you sign). We were present, but so was our agent, the sellers agent...at times the sellers Mother and the seller.
No there was no disclosure about leaking pipes what so ever. Upon noticing all the leaking pipes you can see spots on the concrete floor that they are NOT new leaks. Plus when we turned on the water to the outside tap, the valve inside started leaking immediately. When we moved in they had a hose outside to a veggie garden, so we know they used it and had to know it leaked.
House was occupied until a week before closing, sellers built a new home and moved into it at that time.
We didn't understand the cap thing either, thought you put a tepe on not a cap if you planned on using it.
Originally Posted By: stevelisaw This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jfarsetta wrote:
Quote:
Not "walking" on a roof is also unacceptable unless (again) doing so would cause injury or property damage.
The second part of yhis statemen is the most significant. If my ladder gets me onto the roof, and its not damaged, and the slope is not too steep for me, and it's not too high... I walk it.
The highest I go up a ladder is about 14 feet. If I cant get onto a section of the roof in that span of ladder. I inspect from the ground with binoculars, and state whi I diiid not walk the roof in the report.
My life is worth more than $400
Hubby is a window cleaner by trade and does gutter cleaning (though he's thin and tall) he doesn't have a problem with walking roofs either...like you though he won't walk a steep one. Our modest home is a ranch 1100 sq ft, definitely not steep. If anyone wishes to see it I can post a picture of our home and it's basement so you can better picture it, and understand our confusion with not walking the roof. (btw hubby goes 30 ft.....no higher as that's what our insurance covers.)
Originally Posted By: stevelisaw This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
dbowers wrote:
Jeff - look at my posting to them before we condemn another inspector. How do you or I know if the leaks started after the inspection, etc. About 65% of the expert witness work I do is for conditions that started up AFTER the inspector came and went. The chimney cap comment was off the wall - we need further info before we can say they're right or not.
Dan Bowers
Please don't get me wrong.....I'm certainly not trying to bash this fellow...he was pleasant enough and since the move has been back several times stating he'll back us up in court when we take the sellers there. BUT we would not be having so many problems and stress and the expense of an attorney had he done his job in the first place.
I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but he had his son along and was "showing" him the ropes at our home, and his son is the one that did MOST of the actual view of many things such as under the bathroom sink.
Originally Posted By: stevelisaw This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
bwiley wrote:
Remember our 11th commandment "Thou shall not speak ill of a fellow home inspector to anyone but a fellow home inspector, lest ill will fall upon you".
****I thought there would be code. 
I would like to know the answers to Dan's questions prior to making further comments. A leak under a sink can happen during the move in - move out process and they are cheap to fix. Pipes can leak at any time. And if the house was occupied it is very easy to hide a basement leakage problem.
***During the inspection he noted there was a RING from a can catching water, but they must have fixed the leak.......uh no we moved in and there was a puddle running from under the sink to the right hand lower drawer of vanity. Again the son was the one who ACTUALLY looked at the sink as the fellow has a hard time getting down on the ground area, was breathing heavily anytime he did.
As for walking the roof, I do it all the time here, and seldom did it in VA. I carry a 12' ladder. In VA we had many townhouses which were 3 stories above ground. I wouldn't have gone up that high if I had a ladder. I'm happy to now be living in the land of the one story house.
*******Once again I replay IT is a RANCH!
I once had a client come after me 2 years after the inspection because I didn't tell him his heat pump would break. Another one after six months because his toilet wouldn't flush properly. People will spend 40k on a car and not think about it, but 5k on an appreciating asset like a house and they get all kinds of mad.
******Now that would be silly of us. These leaks were the day we moved in, after having it inspected 13th October 2003 moving in 22nd November 2003.
Lets see what the answers are.
I understand wanting to back up your fellow brothers/sisters in the trade, but if someone does a poor job be they Doctor, Lawyer or Indian Chief .....someone has to let others know about it lest they too be taken for a VERY expensive ride.......a lemon of a car is much easier to get rid of than a $120, 000 starte home with leaks and basement with water.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Please don't get me wrong.....I'm certainly not trying to bash this fellow...he was pleasant enough and since the move has been back several times stating he'll back us up in court when we take the sellers there. BUT we would not be having so many problems and stress and the expense of an attorney had he done his job in the first place.
The statement in red pretty much speaks for itself.
NACHI literature states
Quote:
Most sellers are honest and are often surprised to learn of defects uncovered during an inspection. Realize that sellers are under no obligation to repair everything mentioned in the report. No home is perfect.
I believe this to be fairly accurate 95% of the time.
Why is the previous owner responsible for something the inspector possibly missed? Why would the inspector "back-up" the client for something that the previous owner may not have known about?
Dan, I understand your points. Being caught up in a frivolous law suit is something that nobody wants to do.
I will always support an inspector that can show that he was competent in his job. But as I've stated in other forums, home inspectors (BY DEFINITION) are CONSUMER ADVOCATES. That is our JOB.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: dbowers This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
All good points. The outside hose faucet leak with hose attached could likely be a frozen pipe occuring 6 weeks after the inspection. The chimney cap, I still have no clue what they’re talking about. Having lived in Kansas, Texas, California, Carolina and Colorado nobody anyplace I ever lived “CAPPED” the chimney in the off season.
The leak under a sink vanity can easily happen overnight with previous rings on the cabinet floor being from any number of reasons including old leaks or spilled shampoo, etc. See it all the time.
Leaks on the basement floor - what were they doing when the buyers did their pre-closing walk through inspection. If present at that time, they should have addressed them with the seller.
Starting to sound like several people to blame including old guy with newbie kid.
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
stevelisaw,
Ma'am, there is no code in my post. I will not speak poorly of another inspector unless I hear both sides of the story, and because most of us carry the feeling with us "there but for the grace of God go I". If your story is 100% true and accurate and for the sake of this post I will assume it is, then you had a poor inspector who either needs to be retrained or removed from the business. If a leak is occurring and found and not reported, that is just plain stupid on the inspectors part.
Inspectors are not required to walk on a roof, period. If they choose to (and on a ranch property with composition shingles I certainly always do) it is up to them to assume the risk of damaging the roof or themselves. If he did not access the attic and get as far through it as he could, shame on him. If there were boxes piled near certain areas of the basement, or indications of leakage below pipes or on pipes, and everything happened exactly the way you have written, he did not dig deep enough during his inspection to help you with your purchase decision.
If your inspector has been back several times, I am curious as to what he said about these items. Who is he certified by?
My feeling is and has always been that 99% of all of us attempt to do the very best we can for our clients. Not all of those 99% have the same knowledge or experience, but the items you presented sound like they should have been found regardless of knowledge or experience by someone who was just willing to look properly at the visible clues which were present. Again, assuming your post to be 100% true, accurate and unembellished, it seems that you got one of the 1%. I do feel sorry for you. 
Originally Posted By: stevelisaw This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
dbowers wrote:
All good points. The outside hose faucet leak with hose attached could likely be a frozen pipe occuring 6 weeks after the inspection.
*****We didn't have a good freeze until December. Thanksgiving day and the Friday after (when we actually moved in after cleaning) was chucking it down....which is what brought our attention to the water coming in EVERYWHERE! (Sellers Agent was over like a shot when we emailed our agent about the water....told us the sellers never went in the basement....uh...they must not have ever had clean clothes then for that's where their laundry room with washer and dryer was.)
The chimney cap, I still have no clue what they're talking about. Having lived in Kansas, Texas, California, Carolina and Colorado nobody anyplace I ever lived "CAPPED" the chimney in the off season.
*****Dunno...it is like a tin cap (the one hubby removed). But other people told us to keep out squirrels and the like a tepe thingy is what we need.
The leak under a sink vanity can easily happen overnight with previous rings on the cabinet floor being from any number of reasons including old leaks or spilled shampoo, etc. See it all the time.
*****Understandable, but he stated the rust stained shelf paper in the shape of a soup can must have meant there was a leak. Actually the leak still existed.....the seller put some sort of silicon on the joints, which was hanging off when we moved in..was nasty gooey stuff.
Leaks on the basement floor - what were they doing when the buyers did their pre-closing walk through inspection. If present at that time, they should have addressed them with the seller.
*****When we went through our walkthrough.....their JUNK was still present...part of why they didn't give us immediate possession...we asked for all the JUNK to be removed. (It should not have been such an ordeal for them as NC has hauling with weekly trash.....doesn't cost a cent more....even stoves etc.)
Starting to sound like several people to blame including old guy with newbie kid.
********Oh I feel alot of the blame is mine....I unlike my husband who trusts no one (Being English he figures everyone is out to rip him off) I believed our agent and inspector were on our side...looking out for our best interest. Where I come from you don't lie and cover up .....small town everyone will find out...lol.
Originally Posted By: stevelisaw This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
bwiley wrote:
stevelisaw,
Ma'am, there is no code in my post. I will not speak poorly of another inspector unless I hear both sides of the story, and because most of us carry the feeling with us "there but for the grace of God go I". If your story is 100% true and accurate and for the sake of this post I will assume it is, then you had a poor inspector who either needs to be retrained or removed from the business. If a leak is occurring and found and not reported, that is just plain stupid on the inspectors part.
***** I can understand what you say, but I'm not putting my own spin on this story, but giving it at face value.
Inspectors are not required to walk on a roof, period. If they choose to (and on a ranch property with composition shingles I certainly always do) it is up to them to assume the risk of damaging the roof or themselves. If he did not access the attic and get as far through it as he could, shame on him. If there were boxes piled near certain areas of the basement, or indications of leakage below pipes or on pipes, and everything happened exactly the way you have written, he did not dig deep enough during his inspection to help you with your purchase decision.
******Roof was brand new 40 year, or at least that's what we were told by the sellers. As it wasn't actually looked at who knows.....these people were quite dishonest.
If your inspector has been back several times, I am curious as to what he said about these items. Who is he certified by?
*****Sadly I've no idea if he is or isn't certified.
My feeling is and has always been that 99% of all of us attempt to do the very best we can for our clients. Not all of those 99% have the same knowledge or experience, but the items you presented sound like they should have been found regardless of knowledge or experience by someone who was just willing to look properly at the visible clues which were present. Again, assuming your post to be 100% true, accurate and unembellished, it seems that you got one of the 1%. I do feel sorry for you.
******I have bought homes in Indiana and Missouri.....both times excellent inspectors. Which is why I trusted he was on our side or at least would give us a decent inspection