30 amp sub

I thought that the service to the sub is to small at 30 amps.

I know we are not required to do a power load. The home has 100 amps feeding 2 furnaces, 1 air, electric stove/dryer & a hot tub.

Is the sub adequate at 30 amps or should the service be increased to 150-200 and then sub 60 amps?



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It might be too small but the only way to tell is with a load calculation, anything else is just a guess. And you would not need to up the main panel just to up the sub if a load calc shows the current main is sufficient.

The 30 amp sub is sloppy work. Not very professional. There appears to be discolouring of the nuetrals. They are all 20 amp fuses fed by 30 amps seems to be way over if those loads were to start at once. I would recommend upgrading but thats my opinion.

I have a question. Isnt a Sub Panel supposed to have a 4 wire feed?

Yes, and we will have to assume the panel on the right is the SUB…:slight_smile: does it have (4) Wires…Well maybe it DOES NOT have (4) wires…I see the one traveling behind the 10/3…but the more I look…I don’t see the 4th one.

I do not think you would harm anything by suggesting an upgrade or have evaluated.

As stated, it is hard to GUESS anything without actually doing the load calcs.

You do not need the 4th wire since the branch circuits have no egc.:smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

The ‘sub’ can not handle the load.

How do you know for sure??

Short answer, not to be smart, experience.

Look at all the breakers attached, the load.

Let us make this simple. Can all the ‘breakers’ supply their loads without tripping the main.


Agreed. From experience we know it is probably not sufficient.
Then again, if doing a H-I, I don’t think it is acceptable to say “I don’t think that’s right”. If it were on my dime I’d want documentation.


The answer is we do NOT know. Do we know the loads each breaker serves?

I know many folks, usually that do not know more than the minimum, that over circuit jobs. Typically this is handymen and the like.
In fact just today I had to go fix something someone else did wrong (something I am NOT fond of doing). It was a small apartment, maybe 600sq/ft. It had a FULL 24 circuit 100 amp panel. Tell me an apt that size required 24 circuits.

NOT a STANDARD I will allow to be “EDUCATIONAL” in my seminars…sorry…fact is lact of EGC’s do not excape the FACT the “Remote Distribution Panel” should have it…You can’t assume for the past when someone may add for the future…and what SHOULD be is not an invitation to say what may be…

EDIT- Thanks to WISDOM of SPEEDY…I will assume the a “MAD” parks was joking…:slight_smile:

Paul, I have to say, with all those smilys I think he was being sarcastic. :wink:

Unless you mean that as a joke, I think you DO need the 4th wire. Otherwise, how would you bond the metal enclosure?

And just for arguements sake, you cannot say the sub can’t handle the load without knowing the load! There could be a separate breaker for each light and each receptacle for all we know!

lol…I forget to look at Mike’s picture avatar somethings…I think he was joking…lol…man I have NO humor in me tonight…


I was going to use only one:D that is when I added the other :smiley: :smiley:

wait Mike…i get YELLED at from members at seminars for using too many lol’s and Teeheheheheh…comments…lol…watch it fella…they turn on ya like a pack of MAD dogs…

Paul was right right as far as my picture. I do not want anyone to take my opinions as gospil. Research every answer, it is your @$$ on the line not mine.:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Up here the nuetrals are not to be bonded in sub panels. So you only need to hots and a ground.

Then how do you get 120v?

You get 120 by using a single pole breaker. You have two buss bars. Each buss bar is fed by seperately by 120. Just as in the right hand photo above.

You say “two hots and a ground”. You need a neutral for 120v.