The service comes into a 200 Amp Cutler H panel on exterior, and a 100 Amp breaker feeds the sub distribution panel in the storage area.
In the storage area sub, the conductors come into a 100-Amp breaker at the top of the panel with a 3-wire feed. The rest of the breakers are below, all 20 Amp.
Are there different requirements because the conductors feed the breaker, not the panel itself ?
Should I comment that ‘by today’s standards a 4-wire,’ etc, would be needed’ – or call it as deficient and defer to electrician.
By my understanding, the sub should have a 4-wire feed, but what year did this start?
Not sure which year of the NEC was in effect when home was built, mid 80’s by guess
Harry HomeOwner is the Seller and did all the original wiring when the home was built, I need to be able to explain what I state. :mrgreen:
Maybe Paul A. can join in and confirm that all that is needed is a neutral cable (insulated) added in there also with necessary neut/gnd bus configuration done. Lots cheaper than running a new 4-wire cable.
Basically if the service panel with the service disconnect is outside in this example and the panel which is a remote distribution panel 'sub-panel" is located in the same structure then indeed a 4 conductor cable would be required. This dates back well before 1980 with regards to remote panels within the same structure . Yes, I would instruct them to wire it properly as you many case to neutral connections where they should not be which creates objectionable currents and poor circuit circulation…hey I like that…Circuit Circulation…lol…
Don’t get the allowance in the pre-2008 NEC where you can have a 3 wire feeder to a detached structure with this example. So yes, it needs to be a 4 wire setup.
Also dont be afraid to call out the non-reidentified white conductors on breakers and non-identified grounded conductor in the main panel as well. Also appears to be quite a few 408.41 violations…could be problematic if any multiwire circuits are present as well. Also is that panel listed for the tandom breaker within the enclosure…those kinda things.
Linda
I am an electrician by craft for over forty years now and I can assure you that running that neutral as a bare conductor has never been allowed on the load side of the Service Disconnecting Means except for certain specific circuits and a feeder was never one of those circuits. So the bare neutral should come out and an insulated neutral with an appropriately sized Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) should be pulled in if the conduit is large enough to have 2.5 times the total internal cross sectional area of the four conductors. That would keep the conduit fill to the allowed forty percent fill for three or more conductors.
multiple grounded neutrals under one screw terminal
remove the bonding strap
rework the bus bars for grounds only, grounded neut only
and, that is a CTL panel and should not have the tandem/wafer breaker.
Also, at the main panel we didn’t find a ground wire to a ground rod. No ground rod found, in fact. There was underground service to the meter, but nothing found to the soil level for the SE panel.
It had several issues
Gives me headaches late at night !! :shock:
[FONT=Comic Sans MS]Appreciate all the help !
And, if a new wire is added to the others, it should be in the original conduit / bundle - correct? Can’t just stretch between the two panels however it’s handy to install ?[/FONT]
Probably the MOST important issue here is: YOU are the CURSORY screening process (the school nurse) that determined the football player is having a heart attack AND sent him to the ER at the hospital to see the CARDIOLOGIST for service and repair.
You point out some of the SYMPTOMS, but you DON’T tell the Heart Specialist what to do OR how to do it, OR you can be in DEEP **** if it ain’t right OR your REPAIR screws something up.
You’ve got several issues in NEED of REPAIR. Therefore;
"There were electrical conditions present in the panel(s) that in my opinion indicate there has been a liberal approach to proper installation practices, SUCH AS: xxxxxxxxxxxx; yyyyyyyyyyyyy; zzzzzzzz.
This type of installation has the potential to become problematic in the future. I recommend having a licensed and competent electrician read ALL of the inspection report; evaluate the buildings FULL electrical system and its conditions; then service, repair or modify any unreliable conditions or deficiency’s in a safe and proper manner prior to closing".
Too many of our guys try to BE the FINAL WORD, and they’re not.
I agree with Dan. Tell them what you see as wrong and then recommend an electrician make the corrections. Don’t tell them the fix.
If you happen to leave something out, then they will come back to you and ask you to pay for the additional work, or worse, ask you to come to court because the home burned down.
List the defects and recommend the appropriate contractor make corrections and your done.
