4 Point Form - Citizens vs. Custom Forms

I’m looking to decide between using the Citizens form and Nachi’s form. Clearly the Citizens form is less descriptive and not a “smart” form. For daily use I would prefer the Nachi form. Great format, drop downs and clarity.

However, since there is staggeringly less information in the Citizens form, is that the extent of the information adjusters are seeking?

What is the benefit to the inspector or the customer by providing a more comprehensive 4 Point?

Are insurance companies actually issuing discounts based off the additional information?

I use the Citizens form because it is easier. It is also incorporated into my inspection software so it is auto filled, including the pictures.

They are not issuing discounts. They are determining if the client is even going to get insurance. If you are doing it with the home inspection, it gives the client even more leverage to get things fixed. That is why I use it. It benefits my clients.

The InterNACHI four point, as well as others, were developed before licensing and had to be used if you were a member. This was an approval process to allow association members to be able to conduct four points. Citizens then developed their own four point. You can use any form you want for a Citizens four point as long as it has the same information on it as their form. Some other insurance companies have their own four point form that they will require.

You will read on this board that some members still use the InterNACHI form and it is excepted by everyone. Others will dispute that. Meeker will chime in and tell you he uses his one page form and it has never been rejected. You will have to make up your own mind which form to use.

I used the fillable NACHI form, has a little more information. And just like Eric stated in the above post. They aren’t getting discounts, just trying to see if they can get insurance. From what I learn, the more info and pictures you provide the less phone calls you will receive. Just my opinion.

The Nachi form is the worse and ridiculous. The citizens form I now love because I sell it for $150. My form I sell for $100 to $125 depending on how I feel and the vibe I am getting. My advice is write your own you love then sell the citizens for more and tell folks it will likely be accepted by all insurance companies because it is overkill. This practice has resulted in me making much more on 4 points than it seems most do and finally NEVER bundle. tell them each inspection is totally different and cost its own price. Unless of course you really need the job and think they will bolt. In that case do what you need to do to pay the bills. NEVER NEVER USE THE NACHI FORM. Only bad things can come from folks using that piece of garbage.

Really, want to make a bet on that?

I and my inspectors have used the form thousands of time if not 10 thousand times. We seem to be doing just fine.


Ya ain’t quite the brightest bulb in the box then. Am I wrong or did you not have a hand in creating the NACHI piece of crap?

It has more to it that will hurt the clients. You do remember who they are right? The ones whose name is on the bottom of the check.

But wait you are in the insurance companies pocket and are really not worried about the folks that pay the bill are ya?

On a 4 point inspection it is BEST for the Client to have as little information on the form as possible. The more there is the more the INSURANCE COMPANY has the opportunity to cherry pick.

Go ahead tell me how wrong I am and such.

You constantly prove who your loyalty is for and we all know it is the companies that send the business your way. All you ever “seem” to care about is what the insurance companies want.

Just like all the other companies that say ya we can get any photo you want yes sir we boss man we will do anything for you nod of approval.

Lets see Mike, 5 inspections at $150.00 and you might make $750.00 for one day, if they are all at that price. Most inspectors will only make $375.00 because they only charge $75.00. I have one inspection Friday for $2600.00. One days work is my whole week. My average inspection is $600.00. So you guys just keep doing what you are doing. You are helping me retire early

Again, you know nothing.

I had nothing to do with the design of the InterNachi Four point(I actually removed items on my form).

I get nothing from any insurance company.

The sad part is you do not understand customer service. I actually give them what they need, you do as little as possible.

You keep doing what you are not doing and I will continue to get awesome Angie’s List reviews, 60+ now.

Woo hoo for you.

You are an insurance companies tool. I will not pay Angie so I have no idea if I am on her list.

I try to look out for my clients best interest you do not care.

I think I paid $7 to join Angis’s list, I thought it was a good investment. If I do not care, then why to many do so many take the time to write reviews or use me multiple times?

You really should think some of your thoughts through, especially about me or my company. You really still do not get it, many people really appreciate good customer service.

How is giving the insurance companies More than required reasons to make YOUR clients pay more and do repairs good for your clients?

I’m can’t wait to hear this one. Come on tell me for their safety or some other BS

Well, I guess this is an unresolved issue. If they have both been used 1,000s to 10,000s of times then they both work! I’m glad there aren’t two Wind Mit forms or I’d really have a problem.

Try to overlook the nonsense above.
What Mike doesn’t seem to get, is that one day, the insurance company may send out their own inspector and he may find things that “make YOUR clients pay more and do repairs”. Why not get it out of the way the first time?

The insurance companies will give your client time to fix the items and to be quite blunt, if you are going to lose your insurance over some items that require repair, they should probably be repaired anyway.

That having been said, I totally disagree with the four-point inspection requirement which allows the insurance companies to cherry-pick their clients. It is legalized extortion because, if you have a mortgage, then you are required to carry insurance. If you don’t fix the items, then you get dropped and forced-placed insurance is implemented, which is double r triple the amount of what you were paying.

The whole thing is a scam, as well as the wind mitigation program, for the simple fact that your insurance premium is based on the rebuild cost of the home. How many homes actually sustain enough damage to be rebuilt?
You don’t have to answer that…because here is the answer:As the six-month hurricane season starts Sunday, Citizens has a $7.3 billion surplus.

What Meeker fails to understand is that would it be better to be informed from the Inspector or Agent on what might cause an issue with your policy while you are shopping, not after they send a drive by inspector and you receive a cancellation notice.

or if they do re-inspections and find you have something else they do not like, maybe old and rusty washer connections that they now want changed or they will cancel the policy.

Working with my report and a good agent they can find a company that fits them. There is a difference between an Agent and an insurance company.

As far as cherry picking. we choose everything. I switched my work vehicles partially because the insurance on my van was $60 a month cheaper than my F150.
I also cherry pick my clients and homes I inspect, those I choose to be friends with and my produce. Why should the insurance company be any different? Why must they be required to insure anyone. They already charge you more for where you live, your age, your type of car, your health. We all do the same., where is the home, how old is the home, how large is the home and other features help each one of us decide what to charge.
If you think that your forced to pay for insurance then maybe you should have a different lender or pay off your home. Same goes for your vehicle.

If you want to do business with me, you better offer me enough money to do what you want, where you want or no deal. Same goes for insurance companies. I am still not defending that fact that they can be heartless at times, but so can most large corporations. Don’t get me started about Best Buy or the Ford dealerships in my area.

You are forgetting one little thing in your rant there John, You don’t have to choose Ford, or anything else as it isn’t mandated. With auto insurance and homeowners insurance if you have a mortgage, you are required to carry insurance and as such, you are at their mercy. You have no choice in the matter.

And to make matters worse, now that Citizens “clearinghouse” is in full swing, watch the rates go up. Care to debate me on that? I’ll save you the time and show you the bills from Citizens and American Integrity where I was placed. This years premium went up by 600 dollars. And of course, because I have renters in the house, I have to have insurance on it.

I have often wondered why no one has put forth an initiative that since the bank owns the loan and technically the house, why do I have to insure it? After all, I am just a renter…until I pay it off. :wink:

I use the Tower Hill form . I have removed all Tower Hill info and replaced it with 1st Pro. And made it fillable.

Didn’t you agree to insure the home when you took out the mortgage. You had two other choices you could have paid cash or you could rent.

Being forced to have insurance has nothing to do with the insurance company has to do with your bank.

Just like my car analogy you could have chose a different home that had different discounts or was in a different location and save money on your insurance also.

When you rent, guess what, you get renters insurance…and guess what they ask for? I have had it happen to several clients. A 4-point. Some even wanted a wind mit.

If you buy cash, and I know several wealthy individuals who have large homes, and guess what, they don’t carry insurance because they know the true risks involved are minimal. Something breaks, they fix it.

It is another example of how what is left of the middle class is getting the shaft. Some are just too blind to see it.

And, with auto insurance, there is a competitive market where you have a choice. With homeowners, certain homes, there is no choice but Citizens, to get them in the house, and then, after they are in the house, they get shipped off to another company at a higher rate, that will continue to get higher.

Also, with auto insurance, you have several different options. My previous 69 Barracuda I could have gotten the State minimum, pip and liability, or, an “appraised” value based plan. That plan was more, however, it was based on the replacement cost of the vehicle and since the parts for that car are scarce, it was more money, but worth it.

When it comes to home owners insurance, you get the minimum insurance as well as the “appraised” insurance as they are one and the same. Not to mention only a few carriers will write insurance.

Off to do another inspection…luckily this house was built in 2001, unluckily, it is in the non-hurricane zone. So far, the only discount is the hip roof…someone stole the shutters…but I bet I can “make it work”! :mrgreen:

Added with edit: And, no, I didn’t “agree” to insure the home…I was forced to or I couldn’t obtain funding.

So if I understand you correctly then insurance companies should be required to insure you regardless of risk and at a rate determined by you or the government.

I would leave the state also. If you told me that I would stop inspecting on principle alone.