4 Point inspection electrical portion

Regarding a 4 point inspection. Pulled the panel cover off and all the wiring was copper except the 220v for the dryer and range. It was aluminum wiring.
Does this constitute answering that their is aluminum branch circuits.
As per the NEC it is.

There has been several posts concerning this… It is my understanding that Dryer and range do NOT constitute the particular branch wiring they are interested in. Maybe some one could post the link to those earlier posts.

Nick,

The aluminum wiring of concern is single strand aluminum. Multi strand aluminum as found for the larger appliances is still in use today.

**Heating and Electrical Rule
**[FONT=Arial,Arial][size=2]This rule was expanded to clarify that homes with aluminum branch wiring circuits, as well as knob-and-tube wiring, are not eligible for coverage. [/size][/FONT]

This is what the bulletin from Citizens ATB#005-10 June 9, 2010 reads. I would like to know where someone defines this as single strand wiring only. Again, as per the NEC def of branch circuits, the 220v circuits for the range and dryer are branch circuits. If the wiring is aluminum…

Yes, by code it is used today, but look at the insurance industry’s craziness for the tile roofs and SWR def.

Where will the reinspection go with this?

I will try calling Citizen Ins.

As per Citizens underwriting 12/06/2010, NO type of aluminum wiring will be accepted.

If someone has different info let me know asap.

I’ll simply note that stranded aluminum wiring is present for the range, dryer and whatever else on the report. Whatever the Citizens underwriters do with it is their business.

It is also present at many HVAC disconnects as well around here.

It is what Richard Murphy said “single strand” is their concern. This is straight from Citizen’s rep at the FABI meeting this last weekend in Daytona Beach. That does not mean every Citizen’s rep understands that !! :slight_smile:

How do we get this in writing? This could result in major issues.

In writing ? From Citizen’s ? :cool:

Good advice, I will follow up with some research and get back

I have a link to some info that I will post when I get back to the office. How many service cables do you see though? I havent had any problems with our four point inspections. Blain is correct…just make a note of standed aluminum wiring is present 220v for dryer and range

Is it a branch circuit? I would designate it as a dedicated circuit and yes the Citizens cheif underwriter did state that only single strand aluminum wiring was of concern. I questioned them myself concerning the way they yanked coverage and the difficulty they had imposed upon homeowners without any warning. They responded that they(their homeowners with aluminim wiring) would have to find coverage elsewhere. Well,duh.

Guys - Let’s use some ***Common Sense ***here! Inspections are not a perfect science and stop being anal about these 4 points. Write a note on the form and tell Citizens what you see. Let them figure out what they want to do. Just REPORT what you see. You’re not being paid to analyze, just to Report!!

Here is a solution, change you form to say; “Solid AL wire noticed?” You can then answer the question truthfully.

I can take the easy way out and say screw the home owner or try to be as accurate as possible when it comes to disrupting someone’s life. All of my customers are going to get the best I can offer. Sometimes it takes research, time and seeking clarity from this bureaucratic mess which Citizens has created as information is not disseminated properly causing the inconsistancies in these inspections. Yes, it is the inspector’s responsibility to get it right, not shoot from the hip.

There are no known issues regarding #6 and greater stranded aluminum conductors that would impact the insurance industry negatively, calling out these conductors are counterproductive and confusing to clerks and others who are uninitiated in electrical distribution.

I find it hard to believe that as home inspectors we are even having this discussion. It seems as though there are alot of “4-Point” inspectors out there that have never performed a home inspection in their lives (Wind Mits too I dare say).

Blindly plotting along and adhering to the absolute letter of every statement from the underwriters and not trying to understand the purpose of the issue is very disturbing - kind of like a call center operator - they only know the procedures in their script and cannot handle anything not specifically covered or not in the order of the script.

Here’s some background on single-strand aluminum wiring.

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/516.pdf

I recommend you change your forms to read “single-strand aluminum branch circuit”. Then you can note in your form “yes or no” “present or not present”.

Like Joseph said multi-strand aluminum wiring has not been a problem.

Here it is in writing from Citizens;

Thank you for allowing us the opportunity to review and respond to the concerns raised by Mr. Nick Hernandez regarding Citizens’ policy on aluminum wiring.

The first item I would like to provide for him is an excerpt from our Homeowners’ Rules of Practice Manual, as seen below.

Rule 7. UNINSURABLE PROPERTIES

The following risks may not be insured in Citizens Personal Lines (All Perils). DO NOT SUBMIT:

K. Heating And Electrical

  1. Properties, which have a portable heater or open flame as a primary source of heat, (e.g., electric, oil or kerosene portable space heater, gas heater, or any device utilizing an open flame).

    Exception: Permanent and factory or professionally installed, central gas, fireplaces or wood burning stove heat systems.

  2. Properties, which contain any potentially hazardous electrical conditions, knob & tube or aluminum branch wiring circuits.

  3. Properties equipped with electrical service less than 60 amps.

    Exception: If approved by a Florida licensed electrician, licensed journeyman electrician, or municipal building inspector within the last five (5) years.

Our industry research shows most insurance companies do not write aluminum wiring or they require the update of electrical wiring within the last 20 years. Effective August 1, 2010, Citizens amended our electrical rules to clarify that homes with aluminum branch wiring circuits, as well as knob and tube wiring, are not eligible for coverage. The aluminum branch wiring circuits referenced in the rule is provided to address the risk of overheating and fire from a single-strand (#10 or #12 AWG [American Wire Gauge]) solid aluminum wiring that is connected to the lower branch circuits that occurred predominantly in the 1970’s and before. Most modern homes have some aluminum wiring such as main service (trunk) wires and heavier 240-volt aluminum wiring that feed many major appliances and air conditioning units. This higher voltage multi-strand aluminum wiring does not present the same risk as the single-strand aluminum circuit wiring, which is why we clarified our rule to be specific to branch wiring circuits.

We ask that professional inspector’s document on the inspection report the presence of any aluminum wiring found during the inspection. Our underwriters will make risk eligibility decisions based upon the specific aluminum wiring hazard clarification provided above.

We hope this information allows you to respond to the inquiry received from Mr. Hernandez. However, please do not hesitate to let me know if there is any further clarification needed.

Sherrie Crosby-Bullard
Customer Correspondence

I don’t know where you are getting your four-point referral’s from, but if you start killing deals over something which isn’t an issue then you will soon be out of the four-point inspection business. :wink: