Originally Posted By: rray
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Originally Posted By: jpope
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My first concern with that would be the possibility that it serves two separate circuits or appliances.
Were you able to determine what this was feeding?
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
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Originally Posted By: rray
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No, but that was exactly my concern.
Here's what I currently have in my report (I made this up on the fly, so I'm open to suggestions):
Condition could indicate that two different appliances are connected to the same breaker. If so, when the breaker is turned off, such as for the repair of an appliance, there might still be electricity to the appliance through one of the two poles, creating a possibility for shock or electrocution. Recommend further evaluation by qualified electrician.
My Clients here are non-English-speaking, so I am trying to do some additional explanation that I would not normally do so that the translation will get through to them.
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Originally Posted By: jpope
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| Quote: |
| Condition could indicate that two different appliances are connected to the same breaker. |
I was thinking more on the lines of a 240V appliance being fed from two different breakers 
Either way, further eval is prudent.
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
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Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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I thought the same thing…feeds two different circuits.
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Originally Posted By: rray
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Jeff, is that what I said, but backwards? That’s what I was trying to say.
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Originally Posted By: psabados
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Hey Russel
Wire size vs. breaker size. Can't tell for sure but the single strand copper doesn't look like its any bigger than 14 gauge. The stranded MAYBE a 12. High potential as a shock or fire hazard
I'm betting on two different circuits. Either/or it's still not right.
Paul
Counting down the days to Orlando 2005 T-minus 224 and counting!
Originally Posted By: rray
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Thanks, Paul. I noted the apparent difference in gauges, as well, so I didn’t bring up that specific point. I should have noted in my original post that the gauges appeared to be different.
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Originally Posted By: jpope
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| rkirk wrote: |
| . . . is that what I said. . . |
Was that backwards too  ?
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
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Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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I agree that if the conductor size doesn’t correspond to the breaker size there is a problem, but there is not a concern if the 2 pole breaker is feeding two different (devices, appliances, outlets, etc).
In fact, there are rules in the NEC that require this, under certain conditions.
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Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: rray
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Can you expand on that, Ryan, with some documentation. I just shudder to think of the possibilities.
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Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson
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Sure. If you have an NEC, take a look at 210.4(B) (2002 edition). See also, 210.7© and 240.20(B)(1), (B)(2) and (B)(3).
If you really think about it, what is the danger? If I want to shut off power to one device and that breaker also just happens to such off something else as well, what is the concern? As long as it shuts off all power to the appliance, as required.
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Ryan Jackson, Salt Lake City
Originally Posted By: rray
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| Ryan Jackson wrote: |
| As long as it shuts off all power to the appliance, as required. |
That's my concern.
I've never seen a 2-pole breaker used for anything other than one, 220V appliance. I still just shudder to think that this breaker might be servicing two, 220V appliances, both of which would still be energized if this one 40A breaker were shut off. Maybe labeling on this breaker would make me feel more comfortable, but not much. I'm shuddering so much I might have to have a noon-time margarita. 
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Originally Posted By: jpope
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| Quote: |
| but there is not a concern if the 2 pole breaker is feeding two different (devices, appliances, outlets, etc). |
Wouldn't it make sense to remove the handle tie in a case like this?
My concern would be that the appliance is getting 120V from this breaker and another 120V from somewhere else down the line.
Am I over-thinking this again?
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Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
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Originally Posted By: rray
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In my mind, yes to removing the handle (which is not that kind of breaker) and no to over-thinking.
Another question might be that since this is a 40A breaker, and if it is feeding two separate 110V appliances, might those appliances and/or wires be damaged from a 40A breaker that let 30A through to the smaller appliances. If there are two 110V appliances, I'd be more comfortable with two individual 15A or 20A breakers. Are there 110V appliances where a 40A breaker would be appropriate? I've never seen one yet, but that might be because we use a lot of gas appliances here.
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Originally Posted By: roconnor
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I agree with Ryan, and I think the real concern is the lower wire doesn’t seem to match the breaker (and not that there may be two things connected to a dual-pole breaker). That looks like a #12 wire on the other half of that 40A dual-pole breaker … not good …
Kinda looks like someone wired up a 40A circuit with a dual-pole breaker cause thats all they had, and figured someone would use the right wire on the other half at some point ... wrong assumption ...
I would be curious to know what the sparky says about this one after they check it out ... if ya can remember post a follow up Russel.
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Robert O'Connor, PE
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