6 breaker exceeded

If sub-panels have more than 6 breakers should it have a service disconnect or does that only apply to the main panel?

Thanks ahead of time

Mike check out the thread under yours.
I just had that answered.

Detached structure it does. Within the same structure NO main is required.

sub-panel is in a detached garage???

I’m confused. You made a statement, but put question marks on the end. Is that panel in question in a detached garage or not?

Yeah, I’m confused too.
Maybe I was not clear.

I often wondered if anyone tried to invoke 225.32 exception 1 in the residence of a qualified person

Yeah, nice try.

That exception is mainly for industrial establishments with a central powerhouse.

It applies to the main panel. :smiley:

…AND to a panel in a detached structure.

Even though you guys don’t do codes this seems to be a hard sell. So here:

***II. More Than One Building or Other Structure
225.31 Disconnecting Means
*Means shall be provided for disconnecting all ungrounded conductors that supply or pass through the building or structure.

Marc, it doesn’t say that. I know I would have a hard time approving the installation but if the owner had placards on the subpanel and demonstrated he was “qualified” (licensed) I am not sure how I would justify the rejection if he fought it.

The fact that any installation was compliant at the time of inspection does not guarantee that those procedures will remain in place or that it will continue to be supervised by qualified people. As far as I am concerned the exception guts the intent of the rule.

Speedy, Not disagreeing, trying to understand. This code is not clear to me.

If the main panel is feeding the subpanel and there is a main disconnect (or 6 throw) in the main panel that doesn’t cover the subpanel? Doesn’t that count as means of disconnecting?

I am curious, if the logic (of having a sub panel main disconnect) is to ensure the sub panel (in a detached structure) doesn’t get energized by someone at the service panel, why wouldn’t that apply to a remote (not in line of sight) location?

Or perhaps a better question is what is the difference between a detached structure and (for example) a different level/room of the same structure?

If that is not the logic, please disregard. :wink:

Here is the section where location is addressed.

So in English, he is trying to say the kill needs to be near the entrance of the conductors, for the structure.
Not really an answer but a statement of CODE.
Seems to me it should be required since so many are mis labeled.(refering to the subs)

The disconnect needs to be at the nearest point of entrance, whether overhead or underground. That IS your answer. Call it code if you will, but that’s what our inspections are based on.

I’m not sure I understand this. . .

Almost! If the subpanel is in the same building or structure as the main panel the subpanel does not need to have a main disconnect in the subpanel.

If the panel is in a remote building or structure then the rules for outside branch circuits apply. These are found in Article 225 Part II of the NEC

By adding the two posts together it helps to have a better understanding of what is taking place between the two scenarios.

A subpanel located in the same building as the service disconnect the service disconnect will kill all power to the building and this is important in an emergency situation.

Let’s say that a situation arises in the remote building where all the power needs to be killed. If there is no main disconnect located at that building someone will need to go all the way back to the main building and find the panel that supplies the remote building or the service disconnect. This could be bad in the event of a fire and water needs to be used to extinguish the flames.

What if there was a fault to ground and the circuit needed to be turned off? One could start turning off breakers until they found the right one or if the installation is done properly then one breaker or disconnect could be opened to shut down everything.

There hundreds of scenarios that one could come up with to mandate the installation of a main disconnect at a remote building or structure.

The main rules for outside branch circuits and feeders are;
-A disconnect must be installed either outside or inside closest to the point where the conductors enter the building
-This disconnect must be suitable for service equipment. This will stop the installation of six single pole breakers due to the manufacturer’s installation instructions.
-A grounding electrode system must be installed at this remote building or structure.

All of these requirements are life safety issues and carry a lot of weight. They should be right there with the requirements of GFCI in wet locations in the mind of someone doing inspections.

I get it now, thanks. The requirement has to do with location of the conductors rather than the safety of who’s working on it.

Just read that and it sounded like I was trying to be a smart-a$$ (which in this case I wasn’t) It is up to the sparky to lock out the sub panel if they’re servicing it.

It didn’t sound that way to me and I felt as though it was a darn good question.

Sometimes it is hard for me to address some questions without getting the code involved but then again isn’t this what the Home Inspector uses to back their statements.

Explain that to me? Where are breakers labelled as being suitable for service equipment? I understand the panel has to be. I got into this with “all in one” meter/panels with no good explaination of why any 10,000 AIC rated breaker couldn’t be used without more from the utility about AFC. You would never approach that in a residential sub panel anyway.
I think you would be hard pressed to fail a sub panel that was a service rated panel and had 6 breakers in it. I guess you can 90-4 it