Curious if this is a problem.
This 20 amp 2-pole breaker is rated for 2 conductors on each terminal, however, one of them is part of a240v circuit, the other is for a 120v .
I don’t think this would be an issue, but thought I better make sure, thx!
This is an issue. That 12 wire (looks like) has a neutral associated with it.
What’s up with the 2 reds on the breaker above.
That panel needs to be evaluated by a lic. electrician? I don’t know the rules in your area. I don’t know what kind of expert need to look at it.
Yes, but it wouldnt be sharing a neutral with the other circuit, since its 240V.
The two reds are splices to extend the other circuit to the breaker.
Thanxs. Just caught my eye.
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That doesnt matter, I just say “recommend licensed electrician evaluate and correct as needed” on my reports
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So, what does the stranded wire feed?
According to the label, the two red ones are for a dryer, (30 amp), and the 20amp double is for the A/C condenser.
The additional 12G isnt labeled.
So, you are calling it out? The panel.
I may or may not make a comment about the labels. But there wasnt really anything else wrong with the panel, if this breaker is ok.
I can’t see why it would be an issue. Unless the 20A breaker is undersized or at the very bottom of the allowed breaker size for the AC. Then possibly the extra load from the 120v circuit could contribute to nuisance trips I suppose.
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Breaker size is correct, but that’s a good point about nuisance tripping. Without knowing what this circuit feeds, I suppose it’s possible it could trip if it’s being used at the same time the a/c is kicking on, and pulling max amperage…
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You keep saying one wire is part of a 240v circuit as if that’s all it can do. Many 240v appliances have 120v devices inside them such as timers and control boards. Either leg of a 240v circuit will supply 120v when paired with a grounded conductor. The true defect in my opinion is that the 240v circuit is probably a dedicated circuit and as such should not supply other loads (120v or other 240v).
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Very well could be the defect if the other load is for cord and plug connected utilization equipment not fastened in place. That would reduce the AC unit to being permitted to using only being 50% of the branch circuit rating
210.23(A)(2) Utilization Equipment Fastened in Place.
The total rating of utilization equipment fastened in place, other than luminaires, shall not exceed 50 percent of the branch-circuit ampere rating where lighting units, cord-and-plug-connected utilization equipment
not fastened in place, or both, are also supplied.
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Yes, but this is feeding an a/c (no neutral)
But then the 120v does have one.
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So my first concern is the conductor in question appears to be a 14AWG conductor - if so - a 20A OPD is not permitted.
NFPA 70, 2017 - 240.4(D) Protection of Conductors
(3) 14 AWG Copper = OCPD max 15 amperes
My next issue is that tapping 220-240 volt circuits that have been installed for a specific device or equipment as a dedicated circuit should probably NOT be tapped for a 120v circuit. Not only for the Amperage OCPD issue stated above, but also because the device may also not have a neutral conductor. IF it is indeed a 3-wire 240v circuit designed for older appliances such as an older dryer or stove - or even a newer hot water heater - without proper marking one must assume that it DOES NOT have a neutral conductor - it wasn’t needed, plus the individual branch requirements are also violated.
IF this is indeed a neutral conductor added later for a 240v appliance that requires a neutral, it is the wrong color and the wrong gauge (assuming 14AWG). A neutral in this case may ONLY be a white or gray wire and ALL conductors in a 240v circuit MUST be the same gauge.
Since this appears to me to not be in compliance with current standards, I would declare it a defect in need of further evaluation and correction by a licensed/qualified electrician.
If you are referring to the extra black conductor connected to the breaker in question, it is definitely not a neutral. A neutral would be connected to the neutral bus.
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True, so what is it?
It’s an ungrounded (hot) conductor feeding something with apparently 120v. But according to the OP it wasn’t labeled, so we will probably never know. The only way to tell for sure (during a home inspection) would be to turn off the breaker and then try and go find what else isn’t working besides the AC. Ain’t nobody got time for that though, lol.
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Why would they be required to be the same gauge?
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Ampacity - assuming all conductors are of the same material.