Nick,
For those “Newbies” who are just observing and are not aware of NAHI’s history how about some more examples I.E.
Participating in Preferred vendors list? "Free" inspections, Repairs on items found in need of repair and or replacement. etc…
OUCH…
Nick,
You and Frank might want to show up at the meeting with
sub machine guns… trench coats… and sun glasses…
“the parties over guys”… :mrgreen:
I agree with the opinion of NAHI’s actions, however, I agree that calling them Scumbags really has been the biggest pet peeve since I’ve joined.
I respect you alot Nick and your talents and all, and the SCUMBAG references just really give me an ill feeling in my stomach. It’s just not professional at all, and I know I wouldn’t hear any CEO’s using that term in public, possibly in a board room but that’s all.
I think you’d get alot more respect if you raised the perception of yourself.
Anyone who voices the slightest opposition to me calling a scumbag association a scumbag association should be SCREAMING THEIR HEADS OFF about that association permitting its members to offer corrective services on their own inspections and permitting its members to bribe REALTORs with a preferred vendor scheme, both unconscionable things to permit which actually HARM our profession and fellow inspectors in a very real way.
Wendy, I trust you are being consistent and fair to me and SCREAMING YOUR HEAD OFF about Scumbag NAHI’s ACTUAL harmful actions long, long, long before you complain about my mere use of an acccurate adjective. At this point, for Dan to be fair, I would think he has to carry a sign in front of scumbag NAHI’s events in protest to their sleazy practices. Maybe Dan can tell us what he is doing to fulfill his ethical obligation to help stop scumbag NAHI. If you are not part of the solution… you are part of the problem.
It is a weak sissy who sits back on his/her couch and complains about the distastefulness of how others do their fighting for them.
Anyway… one’s opposition to something should be directly proportional to the harm that something is causing, otherwise you are a hypocrite.
Nick, I believe I addressed that and if I didn’t I’m sorry. I agree 100% with you on your stance against NAHI and their unethical practices. And I haven’t screamed about you or them, I’m very calm.
I simply stated that your position and reputation dictate using more tasteful language than scumbag, and would engender more respect. Of which you have much in my eyes.
To Frank, Gerry, et al,
It’s not that I have anything against ASTM. To the contrary, they are very good at many of the things they do.
In my opinion, they filled a void as to commercial inspection standards. This is okay, as to date, there are primarily only HOME INSPECTION ASSOCIATIONS out there. By our very names, it’s clear that we concentrate on residential, rather than commercial jaunts.
That notwithstanding, anyone with a brain in their head, and who reads ASTM 2810, will surely see that it is quite vague, and doesnt say a whole lot.
And there’s the rub.
Are we now suggesting that ASTM is going to turn the HI profession on its ear, by developing yet another “standard”, as arbitrary and meaningless than their last?
They are a day late and a dollar short, IMO.
I do not believe that the insurance industry, banks, states, or any other entity with the power to affect change will be so quick to adopt yet another standard just for the sake of doing so. I doubt the courts will place one standard above another, specially as most almost mirror one another.
Even if a new standard is developed, it MAY be included as an acceptabole standard, though I seriously doubt it will be the ONLY acceptable standard.
2810 already says as much.
So, are we comparing apples to oranges? No we are not. IMO ASTM 2810 say a lot about nothing, and pretty much invalidates itself along the way.
With this as their foray into the world of inspection standards, can we expect more of the same with regard to residential inspections? And why, do you suppose, more than 20 years after the fact, have they decided to enter the field now, when it is already occupied?
And THAT is the truest of questions when it pertains to laws, enforcement of laws, and even modifications to existing laws. The HI industry, along wioth licensed states, already OCCUPY THE FIELD with residential HI standards.
With no datum prepared to invalidate the effectiveness of existing SOPs, and with many states already adopting their own, why would anyone be interested in yet another standard.
And PLEASE, dont start with ASTMs charter and position in the world of standards-based testng. We’re not speaking of the development of a testing criteria where none already exists.
The fact that they havent invited NACHI speaks volumes. Are they really that out of touch with our profession? They should have scheduled a meeting, and invited members of all HI associations.
I think that John McKenna and Nick should attend. John can keep Nick in check, and visa-versa. John is a level headed guy and a good listener.
Sorry Nick… but Scumbag is a noun… not a verb…
see dictionary difinition below:
scum·bag - Pronunciation (skmbg) noun Slang
A person regarded as despicable.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language,
Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.
All rights reserved.
NAHI is a scumbag would be proper.
Scumbag NAHI is not proper.
SCUMBAG would be shouting the word.
SCUMBAG would be screaming the word.
Now, I have said it for you and no one can complain that you
have been screaming it… I did it…:mrgreen:
ASTM’s own website description of the meeting says the following (pay attention to the last 5 words of the last sentence):
from: http://69.7.224.88/viewnews.aspx?newsID=1036
"At present, there is confusion and inconsistency within the home inspection industry. Disconnects exist among service providers, homeowners, bankers, insurers, and state/local officials. Full consensus standards will provide effective communication tools for all relevant parties, and also create a truly objective resource to support a credentialing model for the industry."
I’ll go if someone reserves me a seat at the BLACK JACK table…
Looks like ASTM wants to start issuing credentials for the inspection industry.
As for Scumbag NAHI… Scumbag NAHI is not an association of home inspectors at all. They are an association of repair contractors who use their deceptively named association to trick consumers into thinking they are independent home inspectors offering impartial inspection reports when in fact they are contractors using our industry to generate repair work. Scumbag NAHI permits this unconscionable practice in a document they ridiculously title their “Code of Ethics.” These repair contractors can offer their low-ball inspections knowing they can count on a portion of the repair work, without first disclosing to their clients of this conflict of interest. Scumbag NAHI only requires them to alert their clients after it is too late for the consumer to make an informed decision about hiring a biased inspector. It is a bait and switch scam. This unconscionable practice is also permitted and defended by Scumbag NAHI. When tricking consumers doesn’t work, Scumbag NAHI contractors can also bribe REALTORs into violating their own COE and their own fiduciary duty to recommend the best inspectors based solely on merit, and instead, recommend the Scumbag NAHI contractor that pays them the most a preferred vendor scheme (prohibited by NACHI and ASHI). This unconscionable practice is also permitted and defended by Scumbag NAHI.
Every now and then a good, ethical inspector like Dan Bowers joins Scumbag NAHI which provides further cover for the REALTOR-bribing contractors who go around pretending to be home inspectors.
dble
Ho-hum…another “test” someone wants to sell?
Doesn’t everyone?:roll:
–
Most SoP’s are arguably “guidelines”. Requirements in the whopping-azzed Texas SoP (7200 words) are TITLED as guidelines.
Please give me an example of prescriptive requirements that would provide the specificity you desire and apply to nursing homes, warehouses, movie theaters, office buildings, restaurants, health clubs, apartment complexes, automotive shops, strip malls, etc, etc.
Thanks.
Russell in Texas
As with most SOPs, I believe that the objective of one reviewing their necessity or value would be to find “consistency”. One would wish to compare apples to apples when saying that “These inspections were conducted in accordance with the NACHI SOP” as opposed to those conducted by the “ASHI SOP”.
A commercial inspection conducted in accordance with the wording of ASTM published standards can vary, from inspection to inspection, in every aspect (determining upon the varying needs of the clients). In this sense, the “standard” is not standard…but simply a very loose guideline for an inspector and client to review and pick/choose what they wanted to address in a report.
I’d like to know who died and appointed ASTM as the voice of anything, let alone our industry. Credentials? You’ve GOT to be kidding me. Where are their credentials?
The entire premise towards this effort is flawed. There is no confusion. Further, their own guidelines (known for commercial inspections as 2810) is a friggin’ joke. Let’s see, reviewers should be qualified, but the client decides who is qualified. If you dont have enough time to report everything, that’s okay. If you dont follow the guide, you still comply with it, as long as it’s okay with the client.
I say we should sue them.:roll:
Credential THIS…:twisted:
“Sorry Nick… but Scumbag is a noun… not a verb…”
Sorry John, but Nick actually said “adjective,” and I think he might be right, inasmuch as “Scumbag NAHI” is an adjectival modifier: a word, phrase, or clause that acts as an adjective in qualifying the meaning of a noun or pronoun, but I could be wrong. Go get 'em, Nick.
I think I am right in calling it an adjective as it is describing a noun. Of course I’m a drop out so what do I know.
I didn’t drop out, but wish I had, because I’d have more money right now. PS I’m willing to meet you in Las Vegas, but can’t find my ice pick. Would you happen to have two?