Bathroom & Panel

Originally Posted By: dmacy
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/5/55005_Lakewood_017_Small.jpg ]


Also the second panel is manufactured by murray. Are the noted for any problems.


The main panel was a FPE and I recommended an electrician to further evaluate.

I always seem to have problems distinguishing the main service amperage on this type FPE. If you can make it out what would you say the main service size is? The main wires are aluminum and rated for 100amps. The 2 50 amp breakers where labeled range & lights. I know the one 50 for the lights feeds the Murray panel. If the other 50 is for the range than there is no main shut off.

Thanks

Dave


[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/5/55005_Lakewood_014_Small.jpg ]


Originally Posted By: jwilliams4
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You are absolutely correct. Nor can a bathroom be built


around the service panel.


--
"not just an inspection, but an education"

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Panel boards are not allowed to be installed in bathrooms (service panel or not).


Being that there is no main disconnect, the SEC size would be the best indicator of the service amperage.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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240.24(e) first showed up in the 93 code. Before that bathroom panels were not prohibited.


Originally Posted By: jpope
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Would you consider a bathroom to be a wet or damp location Greg?



Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: mmasek
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What about condos. I see subpanels in bathrooms is this alright?


Mark


Originally Posted By: kfulton
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I think that bathroom was installed incorrectly over the sub-panel area. icon_redface.gif



Kelley Fulton


True North Home Inspections


...things you think about in dark spaces...

Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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It looks to me like that bathroom was added AFTER or at a later date to when the service was installed. The NEC specifically says the bathroom is not an allowed location for a service panel…


BUt, you can't turn back the NEC and chances are from the looks of the wiring it was before the NEC took this into account so you can say something but it should not be a issue that the seller will change for the buyer..

The Art is 230.70(A)(2) which governs this position, I also believe in the past it actually had Dwelling in the description...I will have to pull my older codes because I believe I used a loop hole quite a few years ago to put a service panel in a bathroom for a commerical location and since the article said dwelling unit I made the AHJ give me an exception...trust me their was no other place to locate it in a commerical oriental RUG store with rugs all over the walls...lol

Anyway.........sure it not allowed today but inspectors be sure you know that you can't turn back the NEC. So it is technically wrong but not a violation of any code.......Being careful what you write as to not totally alarm the buyer and agent......


--
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com

Originally Posted By: mtimpani
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Good answer Paul. I like that your not an alarmest…



Thank you, MarkTimpani


www.pridepropertyinspections.com

Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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Thanks Mark…


Well let me give you bit of background on why I am not an Alarmist...lol

1.) We have about 6 home inspectors in my area and well a few of them do not get work simply because of how they word their reports. They scare away the buyer and the agent looses the sale...now good or bad this business is still largly a REFERAL business and you need to keep the agent happy...and if not happy you have to atleast EXPLAIN to them why you are concerned to the point of alarm...

2.) In the rush for inspectors to play Code Inspectors we tend to forget we are safety inspectors for the most part as well as inventigators into WHY something was done the way it was done. We also have to remember that building code inspectors are required to govern the TIME of the inspection and not the future of the inspection and in most cases what we see changed is " Happy " homeowner making the low cost changes so we have to draw a careful line.

Now........being able to write a TACTful report that still conveys the concerns without it causing wide spread panic in the buyer is a fine art and takes time to understand. You need to convey importance of safety issues but doing it in a tactful way will preserve future business and at the end of the day that business is what feeds your family.

You can imagine what I see in the way of electrical every day as a electrical inspector, electrical contractor and a home inspector....wrap those things up into one and I could down right scare a home buyer or agent into a COMA......but understanding how to write a report correctly and understanding the proper terms to use as to not frighten the buyer is important.

Sure we have to tell them what is wrong....sure we have to govern the rules that apply...but as with anything learning to write the report to that it DOES draw attention to the problem is better than drawing total alarm to the problem....Now if it is a HUGE issue of safety...do what you MUST but even being tactful in your report can get the message across.....

Example...lets say a Sub-Panel is not run in proper 4 wire( Attached Garage )........now the debate among old electricians still lingers on in just how unsafe is it....as a HI it is simply something you report on....and leave it at that....UNLESS you know exactly how unsafe it is and feel like talking forever to the buyers...Less is Best....More is Boring for the most part to the home owner.

Some free sales advice give to me by someone very successful over the years... When selling yourself talk very little, Let the client ask the questions and do not tell them things about you they do not want to hear. The secret of the sale is silence.....ASk for the sale and wait for the reply...lol

Ok....I digressed off the topic....I do tend to not listen to my own advice..lol


SO.....lets have some examples of HOW you would word the problem of the wrong wiring format to a sub-panel and we can teach others how to report it tactfully...versus saying...HAZZARD....HAZZARD....we are all gonna DIE........lol


--
Paul W. Abernathy- NACHI Certified
Electrical Service Specialists
Licensed Master Electrician
Electrical Contractor
President of NACHI Central Virginia Chapter
NEC Instructor
Moderator @ Doityourself.com
Visit our website- www.electrical-ess.com

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Jeff a bathroom is not a wet or damp location in the NEC sense but water is still a consideration, hence the GFCI and panel rules.


The 230.70(a) bathroom prohibition showed up in 96, a cycle after 240.24(e)