It is not the only NEC compliant method. However, it is the easiest.
An ungrounded GFI receptacle will not trip when using the test button on a three light tester. To test those properly you would need to use the built-in test button on the device. Safety is still enhanced over the original installation.
Do you think having GFCI’s anywhere is a false sense of security? If it is then why have them in the first place. They are not fail safe but just having a “ground” does not also make anything fail safe either. You have to battle the lesser of both evils in this situation and a GFCI is my CHOICE of flavor.
I would not recommend replacing with a two prong outlet. An ungrounded outlet is a personal safety issue. There are two ways to go about this that are acceptable by NEC.
- Rewire the room… but since it was not done when the rest of the house was done, this tells me that to rewire that room would be difficult (expensive).
- Replace the ungrounded receptacle with a GFCI receptacle and label it as an ungrounded outlet (they give you the labels with the GFCI outlet).
The GFCI outlet is not a perfect solution as would be rewiring. But, if someone is getting a shock it will limit the amount of time they are shocked to miliseconds before the outlet will trip. Nuff Said!
Not true.
The fact that a receptacle-outlet is not grounded, does not make it a safety issue. We have hashed this out before in this forum, but non-grounding type receptacles are perfectly acceptable for replacements.
Why has no one suggested adding a ground and AFCI protection.
90% rewired seems to require AFCI added from what I understand.
If this is conduit, it should be easy to ground the receptacle to the box.
Jeffrey,
This thread started off with the words “My daughter”. Now I know that technically an ungrounded outlet is “legal”. I also feel (know) that they are not as safe as grounded or GFCI outlets. I personally would not live in a house with 2-prong ungrounded outlets and I certainly would not stand by and let my daughter or grandson do the same. They are (IMHO) unsafe because any exposed metal parts on any appliance plugged into them can become “hot” and there will be no indication that a problem exists until “my daughter” drops dead.
The government and other “powers to be” allow many stupid things in this world and while 2 prongs do not go into my reports as a problem I do have a blurb that I give my client that indicates to them a few reasons why they might want to consider an upgrade.
Fuses are passe even though they are more reliable than breakers because people are stupid and put pennies behind them. 2 prong outlets should have been made “passe” years ago because people are stupid and break the third prong off so that they can use them.
That’s my two cents…
Larry
Larry I really have to ask. If you took an inventory of all the types of electrical devices that you plug into a bedroom outlet, how often do you actually have something that even has a ground prong?
Alarm clock radios, lamps, fans, tvs, dvd players, lap top computers, phone chargers, and most of the other things the average household uses in a bedroom does not even utilize the ground. (two prong devices)Addittionally devices that are double insulated are designed to protect the user from being shocked on its exterior.
The absence of a grounded outlet does not make the electrical unsafe.
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IMHO, as a landlord (you and/or your daughter) have identified a known safety issue (3 wire recept on a 2 wire system). Having done so, you must do something or face a significant liability exposure. While either of the two fixes mentioned are “legal”, the GFCI option is clearly the ‘safest’ and thus reduces liability to the minimum, short of rewiring. In fact, that option probably gives you the most ‘bang for the buck’ - GFCI outlets are really inexpensive and are the same labor (or less) as replacing the receptacles with 2 wire outlets. After all, how many outlets can an ‘old’ bedroom have, anyway ?
Lowes has 2 prong receptacles for about $4
I agree with Robert
Well, let me saythis about that. It is obvious you have not ever owned apartments(the original post said this was an apartment situation). I own 8 units. Over the years I have noted in bedrooms the following: Washing Machines w/hoses that run into the toilet and a garden hose thru the window, portable dishwashers with the same setup, large 3-prong electric exercise equipment, heaters of all sorts, 4 foot construction fans, surge protectors(they require a ground to operate correctly), microwave ovens…I could go on.
Besides, in todays world with high tech (and expensive) electronics, many have internal circuitry for surge protection. If you plug these into a two prong outlet using any of a variety of adapters… they will not operate correctly and are exposed to total meltdown.
You can make all kinds of flimsy cases for ungrounded systems, but the fact remains they are dangerous to use both phsically and financially. The cost to change to GFCI outlets is minimal and although this retrograde will not stop you from getting a shock it will stop you from getting a death sentence shock.
You can argue the opposite all you want and when your done I’ll simply ask you to do some laundry for me in a machine with no ground and one internal fault(a hot wire touchine the now ungrounded case). Good luck and no I won’t attend your funeral.
2 wire systems should have been outlawed years ago. Everyone in the industry knows this. It is a situation similar to back wired outlets which have burned down many many houses across the country. The “powers to be” put there collective heads together and used all the intelligence they could muster… then, instead of outlawing them simply required that the holes be made too small for #12 wire. I can’t tell you how many I have found with the holes drilled out and 12 wire placed in them. I even met one electrician who bragged to me that he had made a special hand tool to open the holes to accept 12 wire.
Oh well, so much for my time on the soap box.
A final question for you…Would you allow an ungrounded system in your childs bedroom? If your answer is “yes”, then please don’t ask me any more questions, I won’t answer.
quote=hmiller;613114]Larry I really have to ask. If you took an inventory of all the types of electrical devices that you plug into a bedroom outlet, how often do you actually have something that even has a ground prong?
Alarm clock radios, lamps, fans, tvs, dvd players, lap top computers, phone chargers, and most of the other things the average household uses in a bedroom does not even utilize the ground. (two prong devices)Addittionally devices that are double insulated are designed to protect the user from being shocked on its exterior.
The absence of a grounded outlet does not make the electrical unsafe.
[/quote]
This an ancient thread but why not put some actual physics on the table to inform the naysayers. An ungrounded GFCI monitors the flow of electrons in the hot and neutral lines. If any differential occurs between these two measures the outlet will trip. Such a differential is caused by any leakage of by current in the appliance. So, even though the frame isn’t connected to the ground, the GFCI WILL respond to current leakage to the frame.
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They are easy to find if you know where to look. Try Home Depot or any electrical supplier. I found them on Amazon in less than 30 seconds.
I doubt that you will ever see an ungrounded system in any house.
What difference will it make when the child sticks a paperclip into the small slot? They will be burned just as bad if the outlet has a ground or if it doesn’t.
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That’s right. The equipment ground at receptacles is almost obsolete. The third prong came into popular use at a time when most appliances had metal housings and before wither the GFCI or AFCI were available. In most situations, the equipment grounding connection is little more than an anachronism.
Sounds like you forget that the NEC has specific requirements that some equipment must be used on only grounded circuits.
How would a fault to a metal box get cleared without a grounding means when NM cable is used?
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