Bond wire needed at jetted tub?

[mpettitt (Mike Pettitt, HI 136)]

Jetted tub in master bath, all plastic piping except supply is copper. Should there be a bonding wire from copper supply to pump motor?
Thanks

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

Good luck

IMHO yes

Looks like a ground terminal lug on that motor to me.

[Jim_Port]

Bonding is only required if the piping is in contact with the circulating water.

[mpettitt (Mike Pettitt, HI 136)]

Yes, I see what you mean but thanks, you gave me my answer (deferred)

[belliott (Bob Elliott, 450.0002662)]

Is that thing missing a motor mount ?

[mpettitt (Mike Pettitt, HI 136)]

No, its there, just not visible

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

@Jim_Port

Bonding is only required if the piping is in contact with the circulating water.

Never seen a hydro tub with metal piping.

Even if that was a double insulated pump the NEC still says to run a #8 to the area for any future replacement pump that may not be double insulated.

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI)]

@mlarson

Never seen a hydro tub with metal piping.

Even if that was a double insulated pump the NEC still says to run a #8 to the area for any future replacement pump that may not be double insulated.

680.74 Bonding
All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG solid.

The motor should be grounded/bonded by the EGC with the branch-circuit feeding the tub.

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

I understand that Chris. Jim seemed be disagreeing with bonding the motor with a #8. No?

[Jim_Port]

Since the copper supply is not in contact with the circulating there is no code requirement for it to be bonded.

Could you also supply the code article that states a bond need to be installed in case the tub is changed?

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

Watch the Mike Holt link in post #2 Jim

680.74

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

I agree with Jim, the recirculation piping is plastic therefore no bonding is required.

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

@Robert_Meier

I agree with Jim, the recirculation piping is plastic therefore no bonding is required.

Then why is the pump housing provided with a bonding lug?

If you watch the Mike Holt video the issue confuses Mike and the panel.

60.74 is so poorly written as to be silly in it’s real meaning.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@mlarson

Then why is the pump housing provided with a bonding lug?

If you watch the Mike Holt video the issue confuses Mike and the panel.

60.74 is so poorly written as to be silly in it’s real meaning.

I agree that it’s poorly written and that Mike’s guys are wrong on this one. Hopefully the 2014 NEC will clear this up a bit. Here’s a proposal that has so far been accepted.

---

17-148 Log #2736 NEC-P17 Final Action: Accept
(680.74)

---

Submitter: Robert Meier
Recommendation: Revise text to read as follows:
680.74 Bonding
Both metal piping system and all grounded metal parts in contact with the
circulating water shall be bonded together using a solid copper bonding jumper,
insulated, covered, or bare, not small than 8 AWG. The bonding jumper shall
be connected tot eh terminal on the circulating pump motor that is intended for
this purpose. The bonding jumper shall not be required to be connected to a
double insulated circulating pump motor. The 8 AWG or larger solid copper
bonding jumper shall be required for equipotential bonding in the area of the
hydromassage bathtub and shall not be required to be extended or attached to
the remote panelboard, service equipment, or any electrode. The 8 AWG or
larger solid copper bonding jumper shall be long enough to terminate on a
replacement non-double-insulated pump motor and shall be terminated to the
equipment grounding conductor of the branch circuit of the motor when a
double-insulated circulating pump motor is used.
Substantiation: There seems to be much confusion with the present wording
of this requirement. Inspectors and installers seem to believe that the two parts
of the first sentence, All metal piping systems and all grounded metal parts in
contact with the circulating water are two separate requirements. Because of
this they take the first part All metal piping systems out of context and require
the pump to be bonded to the hot and cold metallic water piping that feeds the
hydromassage tub faucet. If the intention of this section were to take the first
two parts of the sentence as two separate requirements then there would need
to be some additional wording that would say exactly where the All metal
piping systems that are required to be bonded are located within the structure.
When taken as two separate parts, it would mean that every metal piping
system within the structure would be required to be bonded to the pump motor.
This would include the hot and cold metallic water lines, metallic gas piping
systems and any other metallic piping system within the structure. changing the
first sentence will clarify that the requirement is solely for metal piping
systems and grounded metal parts that contact the circulating water and not the
piping used to fill the tub or any other metallic piping systems that may or may
not be in the vicinity of the hydromassage tub.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept
Panel Statement: The panel clarifies that the word “Both” replaces the
existing word “all” at the beginning of the first sentence. Otherwise, only the
changes shown in legislative text are intended.
Number Eligible to Vote: 10
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 10

[mlarson (Michael Larson, WI Lic. # 1672-106)]

OK but that is only a proposal. Wait, I see it was accepted by the panel but it still is not in effect.

What about the mfgs. installation instructions?

From here: (PDF page 11)

http://www.jacuzzi.com/admin/files/files/4c12655c-e074-4e5d-8a6e-5e8643.pdf

What I am saying is that if you see a grounding lug on the motor it’t there for a reason.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

I would guess that maybe sometimes the heater is added later so a bonding jumper can be installed between the motor housing and the heater. If the manufacturers instructions are part of the listing then they must be followed even if they exceed the requirements of the NEC.

[Jim_Port]

I have seen instructions like those that created a code violation if they were followed. It seems that often times they were written by someone with limited knowledge of the NEC. As that is written it calls for grounding when the correct term would be bonding. The grounding is taken care of by the circuit EGC, not a #8.

The tub also does not require a bonding grid under it like a hot tub AFAIK. The lug would be used if a bond grid were in place.

Thanks for posting that section Mike. I see while reading it that this was a change to the 2011.

[jwhitt (Joseph M. Whitt)]

How is the water getting into the tub? If you say by the pipes that supply the water to the tub then this must be in contact with the water that is being circulated would you not say.

[Jim_Port]

The water that is circulating is already contained in the plastic piping of the tub. The water in the supply lines is not circulating.

[jwhitt (Joseph M. Whitt)]

Let’s look at what is being said;
All metal piping systems
and
all grounded metal parts in contact with the circulating water shall be bonded together using a solid copper bonding jumper, insulated, covered, or bare, not smaller than 8 AWG.
The water cannot get into the tub unless it comes out of the piping system and it is possible and probable that the water can fill while the tub is on therefore requiring the tub to be bonded to the supply piping.

The mixing valve is exposed to anyone in the tub at all times therefore the supply pipes needs to be bonded.

What we need to keep in mind is that this bond is installed to protect the person in the tub and to keep everything at the same potential. It is not a fault clearing bond.