Builder prohibits walk through HI, pays dearly

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21

Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Knowledgable friends:


I would like to do some of these inspections, I have many years experience as the builder and know exactly (I think ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif) ) what to look for.

How the heck do you get your name out to the potential clients????
Any and all responses will be welcome. Thank you all.

--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

22

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Robert,


I am also a Certified General Contractor (builder) and have been specializing in, and doing, inspections only for about 14 years.

I do not know how long you have been doing inspections, but I found that becoming an inspector meant turning your hat around and re-learing everything you thought you knew. This is because "I knew how to do it right and I've been doing it this way for XX years.", haven't we all heard that from a builder, though? What I learned, and try to teach, is that insepcting is inspecting for what is not right, while building was basically (and I hate to admit I was that way also) "this is how we always did it", and "oh, the code just changed, dang, I'll have to remember that NEXT time", the inspector in us says "nope, THIS time".

It was difficult at first to keep the hat turned to "inspector", but now I never wear the "contractor" hat.

If it isn't "right", it needs to be corrected ... and it's not my problem. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

23

Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jerry,


Good advice, unfortunately I was one of those guys that never could 'fudge' things. If it wasn't, isn't , done right: DO IT AGAIN!!!!!
I was, am. used to custom building and log homes, where there is nothing except great workmanship, it always takes a little longer, but it gets done the way it is supposed to be done!
I carry that over to my inspections. I am too thorough and I need a little refinement in that area. I tend to pick on everything equally, and I am learning slowly to pick on the larger and safety items more and leave the minor things with just a minor mention.

--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

24

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jerry,


It is no mistake that I don't use the word "code" in my report. Yes, GFCI protection is a "code" but I certainly will never say that in a report. Yes I do know many of the codes, probably forgot more than most will ever learn.

When comparing the cost of safety issues in the home, it is relatively easy to figure the cost of those repairs that you may have missed versus the cost of all the code issues you may have missed or "forgotten" to place in the report.

It is much easier for me and my insurance premium to defend it as a safety issue than a code issue.

For instance, open electrical connections. Maybe you would rather state the code it violates to the attorney that finds all the ones you missed. I on the other hand would rather state, "its a safety issue because you will get shocked".

In keeping with my common sense approach to home inspections I would much rather state it is a safety concern over a "code" issue. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Joe Myers

25

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Robert,


I'm not talking about "fudging" things.

I am referring to "doing it this way because that is the way I was taught" or "my granddaddy did it this way and and my daddy did it this way, and I done it that way fer 30 years, and now yer tellin' me it's wrong?"

Yep.

The inspector needs to (hopefully) know of what he / she speaks. Not more than the builder needs to know, but typically more than the builder does know.

Joe,

You stated this above.

"
Performing "CODE" inspections is a two way highway to say the least. If you are there to perform a code inspection you are certainly setting precedence to find every code violation which in my opinion is nearly impossible regardless of your knowledge of the codes. If you miss one code violation you are setting yourself up for some costly and possibly lengthy litigation.
"

IF you call out one "code" item, you are doing the same thing, setting yourself up for any preceived "setting precedence to find every code violation". The munincipal inspector DOES a code inspection, and no expects them to "find every code violation", every one know it is not possible. Not doing a "code inspection" and making references to "code sections" in no more dangerous than the other two scenarios above.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

26

Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jerry,


The municipal inspector is just that "A Municipal Inspector" and as such, in most cases and for all intents and purposes cannot be held liable for anything he says and/or misses. The municipality can be sued but not the inspector. He is also there doing his job because it is a legislative necessity and is there to uphold the various building codes and practices.

A home inspector on the other hand is a professional working for a particular client and has been hired by a specific client and not a municipality to perform an inspection for them. The inspector is wholly and completely responsible for everything he says, does, does not say, and does not do.
Home inspectors bear all responsibilities for their actions irregardless of how they perform the inspection. But in the school I come from and the way I was taught it was "do not quote any one code, for then you will be expected to quote every code!".

Indeed, we are inspecting for performance and non-performance of a home and it's systems and components, not whether or not the home is built to code.

--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

27

Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Robert said “The inspector is wholly and completely responsible for everything he says, does, does not say, and does not do.


Home inspectors bear all responsibilities for their actions irregardless of how they perform the inspection.”


JP: Correct, and it is up to you to 'train' your clients on what you do and do not do, and what to expect or not expect.

If you do that part properly, the rest will follow in its place.

Then Robert said " But in the school I come from and the way I was taught it was "do not quote any one code, for then you will be expected to quote every code!". "

JP: And they were wrong, what more can I say. I've been to schools which said 'don't do this, or this will happen' and they were wrong also.

If you believe that, then apply that same reasoning to everything else you do.

You call out one safety issue and you will be expected to call out every one.

You take off one equipment panel cover and you will be expected to take off every one.

You walk on one area of the roof, you will be expected yo walk all of all of the roof.

At what point does that premise begin to get a little silly? Who decides? You or the 'judge'? At some point, we each must make those decisions ourselves.

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

28

Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jerry,


Provided that I can walk the roof, I do walk the whole roof.
I also take off every access panel that was intended for the homeowner to take off for maintenace purposes, such as the furnace covers. I take off the electrical panel cover, even though a homeowner should not. I get into the attic provided there are no exposed wires, if there is I report it as a possible safety issue-fire hazzard. I crawl through crawl spaces provided there are no pis*ed off animals.
I expect myself personally to find all safety issues within a residence, I am also a fire prevention officer in training so I look for those kinds of dangers as well.
We will all do inspections the way we feel is right until such a time that everyone is regulated by legislation. Once that happens then we will have to do inspections the way the government tells us to.

Personally I do not quote codes, even though I know structural, and a few others like the back of my hand, (I have designed a few structures from ground up), but if you do your inspections that way then the more power to you. Keep up the good work!

As I asked previously, how do you get your name out there to do new construction inspections?

--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

29

Originally Posted By: Scott Warga
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jerry said;
Quote:
There is no longer the excuse "But which code applies?", the code for your area. There sometimes does come up 'which code applies' as when there is a code changed, then you need to ask, or make an educated guess, when the permit was applied for, and use that code.


Codes are written for one reason,SAFETY of the consumer and the contractors
I quote code and I do it often.

Think about it, Is the builder going to put in walk boards to the equipment in the attic because a Home Inspector said so, or are they going to move the wires in the Attic more than 5 feet away from the scuttle because they are nice guys? No, My clients hire me because I don't want to give the builder an out.

We have a major city here that just adopted the 2000 IRC and the 2002 NEC, before that they were using the 93 &94 codes.

I don't care what code the City adopts, if it is not the most current let the builder tell the client:
"We decided to cut corners on Safety Issues that WE are aware of but the City does not require us to install."

If there are no Ark Fault Circuits protecting the bedrooms my boiler plate says:
Current building standards would require AFC protection, but none is present at the time of inspection. We suggest arc fault circuits be added as a safety upgrade.[NEC 210.12(B)] {All branch circuits that supply 125 volt, single-phase, 15- and 20- ampere outlets installed in dwelling unit bedrooms shall be protected by an arc-fault circuit interrupter listed to provide protection of the entire branch circuit}. The code referenced is only to used to describe current construction standards, it is not intended to imply that this code was in place at the time of construction, nor that this is a code compliance inspection. Not all code related issues can or will be disclosed in this report. Codes are written with consumer safety in mind. If this house is new and does not meet current codes ask your builder why.

Does this upset some of the builders? Yes.

Should they be upset, Yes

Will I continue to do this to protect my clients? Yes

--
Scott M. Warga
President
Ark Inspections Inc.
Gilbert, Arizona
30

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Most of what Jerry says has been hashed out on another web site, and things are most assuredly different in his area than they are here in my area.


The most important thing probably is to get yourself a good attorney to check out legislative law and case law in your area. Then you'll know what you need to do for new construction inspections.