Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Relocated:
http://www.joetedesco.com/nec/viewforum.php?f=57
--
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Relocated:
http://www.joetedesco.com/nec/viewforum.php?f=57
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
http://www.joetedesco.com/nec/viewforum.php?f=57
–
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: wpedley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
I personally would remove at least one tile to gain access
to the affected area. I also know how to do this very well. I've
installed enough of them. Both ceiling systems and lighting. But on another
note I would not if I didn't know what I was doing. You most certainly
cannot expect to inspect a home unless you know how the entire systems
of the home are put together, right?  
--
BPedley
Inspecting for the unexpected
Originally Posted By: jtedesco
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Absolutely!
–
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
"1.1. A Home inspection is a non-invasive visual examination "
What is 'non-invasive'?
Should I pull the toilet to see if the seal is 'good'?
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Removing a ceiling tile is a little different than removing a toilet. I would not even hesitate to look for a loose tile to remove. I consider them accessible by the home owner so that means I need to check it out. JMO
–
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net
30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Todd
"Removing a ceiling tile is a little different than removing a toilet."
I agree but what is invasive?
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: tallen
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
You remove sheetrock attic hatches don’t you? I see no real difference.If I feel I need to see whats up there than I will remove it.
It really is not that hard to remove an acoustical tile without damaging it. Even if you do what's that going to cost you? Not much.
However, there could be nasty dangerous stuff above a drop ceiling. Again this is just my opinion. Say it AGAIN JMO
--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net
30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Todd
Keep removing the tiles.
I do not. I break them or can not get them back in.
Last week I had a client (removing, ripping up, tearing back?) carpet to look at the floors underneath. 
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Yes it can be properly inspected…
Step one: Flip light switch to on position.
If light fixture comes on it's functional.
If light fixture does not come on mark down that it was not functioning at the time of the inspection.
Step two: Flip light switch to off position.
Step three: move on to next room.
Case closed. 
Now if you want to inspect the wiring and any plumbing lines up there then I'd say go ahead and remove a tile and take a peek around.
--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC
Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector
Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
–
Joseph Hagarty
HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com
Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865
HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.
Originally Posted By: dbozek
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree with Todd on his response for there can be, and most probably is, some real electrical nightmares above a drop ceiling. My question would be though, if such is easily accessible, why would a HI not take the time to take a peek? If the HI is obsessed enough with looking into junction boxes and trying to figure out how it was wired, I would surely think he would do the same in an accessible drop ceiling! I am amazed at how much contradiction goes on here. First one says he will go to extremes to do this or that but then he states he will not remove a ceiling tile to look above it! If it is a drywall ceiling, then yes I can see no reason to try to gain access to the above portion of it. But with a drop ceiling, it’s as easy as falling off of a bike. So why not do it? The recessed cans could all be hard wired with bare thhn for all anyone knows and here is a HI, who is able to push up a tile and take a look at the installation and yet he does not do it? I surely hope those types of HI’s have excellent E & O insurance!!!
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis,
Some would most certainly consider it invasive. It is up to the Seller. You should ask for permission first.
In addition to that, where does the inspection stop? Why just remove a single tile. What can you see? How many defects?
This question should have come with an answer from Joe as to how this should or could be inspected in a non-invasive manner. Absent of that, no answer is correct or incorrect.
--
Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: dbozek
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe…Hi this is Dennis
It's an accessible area and cmon now.......you know as well as I do that its a haven for bad electrical....most the time. Typically you can put your head up there and with a flashlight you can peek around in different areas. In fact depending on the ceiling contact to the joice space, the light from some fixtures will even shine up into that area.
Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Another twist on the suspended ceiling question.
You are in a home with a dropped kitchen ceiling, fluorescent lights above prismatic diffuser panels, you know that frequently there are wiring problems up there - do you remove a ceiling light panel to look up there?
Yes.
--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Is this really Dennis?
Jerry, let's face it... your inspectins are not the norm. You go well beyond the SOP. Tat's fine for you. These are finished spaces, and the point I am making is valid.
If you choose to open 2 ceiling tiles and miss a defect on the far end, whjat is your excuse for not removing ALL tiles. Why just 2... or 3... or 4.
The premise requires thought, especially from a liability standpoint. The answer is not automatic.
--
Joe Farsetta
Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I agree with Kevin and Joe. I don’t remove ceiling tiles as this is now finished space. The light works or it doesn’t. I think when you look at a suspended ceiling that the insinuation is that the homeowner finished the area and amateur workmanship with hidden defects are present. No different than if he did a finished ceiling, he may have hidden defects behind the drywall.
I would never move one of those darn brittle translucent plastic panels in the domed kitchen to see the fluorescent lights. They break when you look at them!
Do you guys who remove ceiling tiles also remove the screwed in plumbing access panels behind bathtubs which are often painted in place also?
Originally Posted By: jpeck
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| jfarsetta wrote: |
| If you choose to open 2 ceiling tiles and miss a defect on the far end, whjat is your excuse for not removing ALL tiles. Why just 2... or 3... or 4.
The premise requires thought, especially from a liability standpoint. The answer is not automatic. |
The automatic answer, and the answer after giving it thought is the same: Your liability is less than not having removed even one.
If it goes to court (which is where the liability you are referring to comes into play) would you rather be asked:
1) "Why did you NOT remove those easily removable ceiling tiles (or light panels in my example)?
2) "Why did you remove those TWO panels and not over there where the problem was found?
The answer to 1) is (if I understand you correctly) "Because I don't have to." That will really sound good to the judge "Because you don't have to?", the judge replies, "Well, I think you should have, because the SoP you say says 'you don't have to' really says 'you can if you want to'".
The answer to 2) is "So I could gain access to look into that ceiling space, and those two panels were two which I could remove without breaking them, I tried several others and they were stuck, I did not want to cause damage by breaking the ceiling panels, it is difficult to match old ceiling panels without replacing them all. I did not want the seller to have to replace them all. My inspection uses due diligence to look around, not total destruction to see what could have been saved." 
--
Jerry Peck
South Florida
Originally Posted By: jhagarty
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
–
Joseph Hagarty
HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com
Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865
HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.
Originally Posted By: dfrend
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I understand both sides. Personally, I will peek. Why are we even arguing the sides? Who cares. If I want to peek, that is my right to do so as part of my inspection. If Joe does not, that is his choice. Why argue that you think it is invasive? I don’t think it is. Neither one of us is necessarily right, we both see it differently.
My second inspection had a basement drop ceiling. The fireplace in the basement showed signs of use even though the chimney was cemented closed. I decided to peek above the ceiling. There sat a room full of joists that were charred beyond belief. How they got some of them to pass for re-occupancy is beyond me. They had painted them with Kilz to block odors. The rest of the house was pretty new (carpet, paint).
--
Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com