Cartridge fused disconnects?

I haven’t seen too many in CO but they’re common in Mexico. I don’t know that much about them and can’t find any information on them. The cartridges have their amperage marked on them, so I guess that means a service panel with three 100 amp fuses is a 300 amp panel, or is it a 100 amp panel?

The cartridges are each marked but not the handle or panel, so does that meet the NEC requirements for marking the disconnect?
Any inspection considerations?

The house with the red panel that’s such a mess had three meters, each with a single conductor going to it. I asked asked the engineer with me “where’s the neutrals?”, he said they were inside the conductors with the 120v hot wires. I don’t THINK so. I haven’t figured it out yet.

Electricity here is heavily subsidized and the three meters were a legal effort to take advantage of the subsidy.

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Number one looks like a three phase 208 volts system 100 amp system .
With a meter you should read 208 between each fuse and from each fuse to the Neutral it should read 120 volts .Going to three meters it looks like you have a 100 amp 120 volts one leg for each resident .
I will email you more info later … Roy
Number two looks like a similar set up with a 60 amp 3 phase set up and a 60 amp service one leg service to each resident .

Number one looks like a three phase 208 volts system 100 amp system .
With a meter you should read 208 between each fuse and from each fuse to the Neutral it should read 120 volts .Going to three meters it looks like you have a 100 amp 120 volts one leg for each resident .
I will email you more info later … Roy
Number two looks like a similar set up with a 60 amp 3 phase set up and a 60 amp service one leg service to each resident .


Info sent … any questions send me email…

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I like the door hinge located in the box best!

I agree - 100 amp, 3 phase.

3-phase, well that’s probably why I see a lot of these set up for 3 fuses that only have 2 installed.

Don’t you need specialized appliances and other equipment- like dryers, refrigerators, etc. to use 208v? This house didn’t have anything special.

Off the pole there were 3 phase conductors, no neutrals. I don’t see anything that I can safely identify as a neutral in the panel, I don’t have a meter, and I don’t have access to the house.

Lots of equipment is made for 208 volt very common in industry .
.It looks to me like they use just 120 volt in the homes so the single hot and neutral works fine for them. Most equipment made for 240 volt will work on 208 and much is available for 208 3 phase .Hot water and resistance heating works just a slightly smaller out put .
looks like some how they have what they could be using as a neutral in the red disconnect .

I wonder could they be using the ground as neutral??? ( not very efficient)

Does this help any?

Industry? No, this is residential. There is no single hot and neutral. There’s 3 hot wires, no neutral or ground coming from the pole to the meter. Lights and outlets won’t be 220, those things here are 120. I don’t understand why they would have 3-phase. This was a cheaply-built house with no need for higher voltage.

We are just guessing with the limited info you are giving us sorry but true voltage readings are required.

There are many things to consider it is cheaper to transmit a higher voltage
.It is cheaper to use one voltage for small industry commercial and homes then to have multi systems like we do in north America.

We are just guessing with the limited info you are giving us sorry but true voltage readings are required.

Wish I could provide more, Roy. Next time I can take a little more time with it.

Thanks Kenton .
Interesting to see what they have in other countries .

It has been a learning experience for all of us.
We are lucky in Canada/USA to have good regulations and regular improvements.

In Mexico they have modern standards, pretty much the same as in the US, the problem has been enforcement. That’s true in a lot of places. It’s real easy for a politician to promote the adoption of standards and then use that as a device to win votes. Establishing a system of enforcement in a country in which builders are used to paying off inspectors is not so easy.

The building in the photo below is at the entrance to the harbor in Durban South Africa. The apartments in the surrounding buildings overlook the harbor entrance and go for a lot of money.

Nelson Mandala’s daughter started this project. The contractor was allowed to use substandard steel and concrete. It’s been declared unsafe and now no one will pay to tear it down, so it’s going to sit this way for a long, long time.

Kenton, in the first image, that disconnect is a 600 volt rated, 3 pole disconnect, typically installed on three phase systems where the service is either a 480 volt three phase, or an uncommon 575 volt three phase. Both are voltages used in industry. It is completely possible that the actual connected voltage is 120/240 volt single phase, but we can not tell that without actually measuring it. Mind you, we are speaking in terms of voltage and not in current.

Disconnects are rated in general for two voltages when dealing with low voltage systems. They are normally rated at 250 volt, or 600 volt. This is a distinction that follows the NEC, where only 2 types of system voltages are identified. They are systems “operating at less than 600 volts”, and systems “operating at over 600 volts”. I am attaching a PDF chart that actually details system voltage definitions according to the IEEE, just as a reference. In industry and engineering, we actually consider 601 volts to 69,000 volts medium voltage.

Anyways, back to your post. Since fuses trip on current, a fuse rated at 600 volts, 100 amps will still open an overcurrent event if it is indeed installed on a 240 volt system where the current exceeds the current rating on the fuse. If you compare a fused 600 volt 100 amp disconnect to a fused 250 volt 100 amp disconnect, the physical size difference is obvious. The 600 will be roughly twice the size.

BTW, it is not a code violation to install a 600 volt rated disconnect on a 240 volt system. However, it *is *a violation to install a 250 volt rated disconnect on either a 480 volt or 575 volt system, since the applied voltage exceeds the voltage rating.

I hope this gives you a little more information regarding disconnects and their application.

Edited to add: By code, the actual knife blades of the disconnect (the part that completes the connection and actually protrudes out when the disconnect is in the “off/open” position, are required to be deenergized. If not, the disconnect would be back fed and the fuses would be energized at all times. This is perhaps the most serious safety issue regarding improper installation. I have ran into it many times in my career and is the main reason for always verifying with a meter even after you turn something off. Back feeds are unrecognized killers!

William brings up some good points especially about checking for energized back-fed fuses. There are some permitted installations where the fuses are energized when the switch is off. Under those conditions the switch is required to have a sign stating that a back-feed is present.

How do you tell by looking at it?

Usually you can’t hence the requirement for a sign. As William pointed out even if you shut off the switch is always a good idea to be conizent of the fact that the fuses may be inadvertently or purposely back-fed. I always test them before sticking my hands in there. :o

Thing is, I’m writing an electrical inspection course for Mexican inspectors. I appreciate both you and William taking the time to post, but I need to explain to people how to recognize defects, how to recognize the ampacity of a fused disconnect service, what constitutes the actual disconnect of a fused disconnect, since the fuses seem like the overcurrent device, but how do you tell the ampacity of the disconnect? Or is that governed by the fuses?

You might want to tell Nick he needs to pony up a plane ticket for WIlliam or Robert to help you. :wink: