Condo/Townhouse inspection

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1

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Got my first townhome/condo/4plex/whatever inspection coming up…The condo assoc. is in charge of taking care of all exterior and roof repairs. Since these items are shifted to the condo assoc. do you still check them?


Is this why some charge less for the inspections?


Realtor said that condo assoc thakes care of these items with the exception of windows/doors which is the responsibility of the homeowner.

–
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC


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2

Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Some inspectors will disclaim anything that is the resonsibility of the condo association. I’m interested to hear myself what others do.


Erol

3

Originally Posted By: chorne
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Hi Kevin,


Glad you are keeping busy!

I make a note that the Condo assoc.(if stated by the Realtor)
is responsible for the exterior.

I still report on the condition of the roof and exterior so the
client has that information.

Make sure you check on the windows, most assoc. in this area
state that the home owner is responsible for the windows.

Reason being: Most condos were built in the 80's and the seals
on alot of the windows are bad. assoc's don't want the responsibility
of replacing all of those windows.

Good luck,
Carla

4

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi to all,


here's my 2 pence worth, I check them all the same as a single family, reason.

there are very many documented cases where someone has bought a condo unit believing that the association is responcible for the exterior and roof etc, only to find out that while the condo is responcible for these areas they do not have a well estabilished sinking fund in place to pay for the repairs, and end up hitting the owners with a substancial surcharge to enact repairs. this obviously impacts on an owners ability to afford the property in the short to medium term.

I also check the common grounds and internal common area for the usual trip hazards loose handrails and the like.

For the extra time involved it is just not worth ignoring. it may well be that you flag that the roof for example is nearing the end of its live, which gives the potential buyer the opportunity to talk to the association about their repair provisions. the thing to understand is that the moment someone buys a condo they become a part owner of the association, and as such take on part of all liabilities.

as Russel says 'your milage may vary" mine don't ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

regards

Gerry

--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

5

Originally Posted By: gjohnson
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We would do the same think as Gerry, report ont the condition of the whole house.


If there are problems that need to be reported to the HOA then they home buyer can present their findings to the association. As gerry says sometimes you find out in the later that the association is not responsible for the exterior repairs.

--
Gary (Snicker's) Johnson - Free NACHOS
The NACHI Foundation
Executive Director

301-591-9895

6

Originally Posted By: rray
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Inspectors in my area, for the most part, do not inspect the exterior of common area properties. The exception seems to be duplexes, triplexes, and fourplexes, as well as some single-family attached homes. The public records always tell me what I need to know, so it is very easy to charge appropriately.


The place where I run into the most uncertainty is with the SFR-attached. Usually there is a homeowner's association, but they only take care of common area landscaping. When I run into the SFR-attached situation (the public records will say condominium or PUD but the listing, MLS, and Realtor will say Single-Family Attached), the amount of the homeowner's association monthly dues tell me what I need to know. Low dues--landscape only, homeowner takes care of structure. High dues--association takes care of structure.

Homeowners' associations in this state are very, very powerful, so powerful that there is legislation pending that brings these homeowners' associations back down to earth. For the time being, homeowners' associations are very protective of their turf and their power, which is why I don't intrude into their jurisdiction.

Here's what I put in my report to help my Client in these circumstances:

Quote
Common components and common areas??Inspectors do not test, analyze, inspect, or offer an opinion on the condition or function of areas or structural components common to more than one unit, systems serving more than one unit, or areas which typically are under the jurisdiction of a homeowners? association, including, but not limited to, structure exterior (including decks, balconies, porches, patios, and parking structures), roof, chimney foundation, fences, and utility service entries. Some areas or systems may or may not be under the jurisdiction of the association (garage, water heater, laundry, etc.). Homeowners? associations sometimes have qualified personnel who can assist Client with many areas of concern, sometimes at little or no cost. Recommend always consulting with homeowners? association prior to commencing any work whatsoever. BEFORE CLOSE OF ESCROW, RECOMMEND: (1) Walking property to determine if homeowners? association is maintaining structures and property in a condition satisfactory to Client; (2) Having qualified homeowners? association personnel inspect all common area structural systems and mechanical components servicing this condominium, particularly, but not limited to, foundation, structure exterior, roof, and chimney; (3) Acquiring homeowners? association public records, minutes, bylaws, budget, etc., to help determine any consistent problems with common area grounds or components; (4) Checking with homeowners? association concerning Client?s responsibility and any non-recurring fees, dues, or assessments which might be forthcoming.
Unquote

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

7

Originally Posted By: rray
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Quick follow up:


I explain everything to my Client, as does my contract, but I also tell them that I usually walk around the property myself just to see what kind of property it is. If I see a bad roof, or a huge crack in the wall, or the chimney falling down, I won't (can't) put it in writing in my report, but I have no problem pulling them off to the side and saying, "Mr. Client, see that? Point it out to your homeowners' association and see what they have to say."

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

8

Originally Posted By: tallen
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I do exactly the same thing. In the hope that it will inform my client about the integrity of the association.


I charge no less for condos.
Reason being in my area the A/C is on the roof Maybe on the second or third stories. If I have to move my ladder that many times. well ------

--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.

www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

9

Originally Posted By: rray
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Another quick follow-up:


I did have one Client who actually followed all my recommendations concerning getting the homeowners' minutes, budget, etc. She found that owners of record on July 1, 2003, would be assessed something like $5,000 each for changing garage doors from wood tilt-ups to metal sectional roll-ups, painting all trim, changing non-tempered sliding glass doors to tempered sliding glass doors, and some other things. She passed on the property and thanked me for my advice.

Of course, we did the next inspection for her.

And I thanked her for reading the complete report!

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

10

Originally Posted By: rray
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tallen wrote:
A/C

Huh? You need A/C over there? ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

And, of course, I don't walk on roofs anyway.

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

11

Originally Posted By: bemelander
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Kevin,


Did a condo today. Did it the same as all other inspections. Reason is the owner may not be responsible for the roof but he would like to know the condition. If it leaks he would be responsible for what’s under it.


Bill

–
Anchor Home Inspections


bill@anchorinspections.com
12

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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To be honest, I did the inspection before I wrote this thread. I quoted the client my usual fee + I added some for driving to an area I don’t consider my own. It was 120 miles away, but in a different direction from where I service.


I hadn’t even thought of the condo assoc. thing until I arrived on site and saw the shared roof. Then it hit me. How do they cover this? So I asked the Realtor and she said right away that the assoc. takes care of the roof and exterior with the exception of the doors and windows. (Carol it was funny you mentioned the windows, because the seals were either bad or going bad!)


I took a quick peek at the roof from below and it looked new, as did the siding, so I wouln’t lose any sleep over not checking it out more thoroughly.


After I got home, the client called and was talking to a friend. “What about inspecting the roof”? My heart skipped a beat as I didn’t relish the idea of jumping in the truck and making the drive to inspect the roof, but I would if I had to. I told him about the association was responsible for maintenance of the roof and siding. He had no idea that was the case. (He was Hmong and the language barrier gets in the way sometimes so they don’t ask all the questions they need to the realtor). He hadn’t overheard my conversation with the realtor, which I had thought he did since he was standing right beside me.


He said ok and he’d talk to the realtor about it. He called back in a few minutes to say thank you and that I did a great job for him and my report was very detailed and easy to understand.


I did pose the question to the realtor "what if the roof leaks?" "who pays the damages"? She said "insurance will take care of that". I said "who's insurance?" She just looked at me with a blank look on her face and said "I really have no idea!" I left it alone.

I do think in the future I will look at everything..as you guys state "homeowners responsible for everything underneath!"

--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC

Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector

13

Originally Posted By: rray
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If the homeowners’ association takes care of it, then the homeowners’ association will have appropriate personnel on staff or on retainer. I advise my Clients to have the association send out the appropriate people to inspect all the common area components. If the association refuses, then that says something about the association. If the Client refuses, then that is his problem. I’m outta the picture.


Again, though, it comes down to educating and communicating with your Client, as well as what your competition does in your area.

Our inspectors here have two prices, one for common area properties and one for all else. Home inspections on common area properties are less expensive because we don't inspect common area components, so it takes less time to do the inspection.

Interestingly, the majority of us only give $20-$50 discounts on condo inspections, yet the time required in doing the inspection and the report is far less. I consider condo inspections to be a cash cow, and at some point I might even market one of my inspectors as the "County Condo Inspector." All he will do is condo inspections and help me with marketing.

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

14

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Quote:
If the homeowners' association takes care of it, then the homeowners' association will have appropriate personnel on staff or on retainer. I advise my Clients to have the association send out the appropriate people to inspect all the common area components.


Maybe a bit of a regional difference there. The homeowners associations simply build up reserves or send out a "special assessment" around here and then send out for the best bid. None of the ones around here have staff except for an office person. The only people on retainer are the landscapers because they work every week. A friend of mine just put in a bid on doing 22 roofs in a small maintenance free development.

I inspect these properties just as I would any other. If there are defects on the roof, siding, etc., I simply write them up and let the Realtors decide who will fix them.

I got a great view of the whole coast last week when I was checking the AC unit on the roof of a 12 story condo at the beach. Could see practically from Sarasota to Boca. Made for a nice day and broke up the monotony! ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)
15

Originally Posted By: rkulla
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I always inspect the outside of the townhouses. Many have had rotted decks from bad location of the dryer vents. Bad siding & foundations. Your client needs that info. I inspected one that was a small association with bad siding on the whole complex. The gal selling was on the board of directors and said it takes a long time to get things done due to lack of $$$ & a small association. $250,000 for a townhouse with bad siding & roof. You know they are going to jack the association fees.

–
Rex Kulla


Custom Home Inspections


Maple Grove, MN


(612) 799-3093

16

Originally Posted By: rray
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Oh, it’s definitely a regional difference, even a state difference.


Homeowner associations here are very, very powerful, and very, very rich. It is very, very rare to find a homeowner association that is not very, very powerful and very, very rich. In fact, homeowner associations here are so very, very powerful and very, very rich that there is current legislation to reign in that power and bring the associations back down to earth. Since those associations also have very, very good lobbyists [note the pural there] in Sacramento, it probably won't get passed. This is the first time anyone has ever tried to reign them in. But in this case, the sponsor of the legislation is pushing it on behalf of some very, very, very, very rich people in Rancho Santa Fe. It should be a good fight, even though in the end I don't think it will pass. Homeowner associations here are the reason why I live in an outlying area, one where I can put up a nice stucco mailbox instead of a box on a stick and not have anyone come around to tell me to tear it down by July 1 or pay a $5,000 fine, plus $500 a day for every day that it stays up past July 1. And then they can put a lien on your house, and foreclose without typical foreclosure protocol.

Nope, don't wanna mess with them associations here. They have much more power and more money then do I, so I have no intention of intruding into their jurisdictions. They have been known to go after home inspectors messing around with them.

I don't question the fact that the Client needs information about the exterior of the building. Never did. I'm just not the one to put that information in writing. If they want me to come back after hours as a personal friend, we'll discuss the outside and then go have a margarita. Different story.

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

17

Originally Posted By: rkulla
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What about fireplace chimneys. Are they considered homeowner or association owned? I do inspect the outside of the townhouse and look at the roof from the ground with binoculars. I inspect the chimney as far as I can see in the fireplace and note that in my inspections. I tell them what and about how far I can see. I usually recommend they have it inspected and cleaned prior to use. I have been told the homeowner only owns from the sheetrock in. Fact or fiction? I imagine every association is different.

–
Rex Kulla


Custom Home Inspections


Maple Grove, MN


(612) 799-3093

18

Originally Posted By: eharris
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Received my 1st call for a Condo inspection. The development is Garden style, started in '70 & completed in '74. The client lives in an apartment in the development and is considering puirchasing one of the smallest units, 530SF, on the bottom floor (over a street).


Her RE Agent is a RE agent is one of the RE Agents for the Development, been an RE Agent for 40+ years and there's is no foolin' around with her.

My Client, against the wishes (orders as she put it) of her RE Agent, hired me but I'm only allowed within the unit interior. After reading this thread (thank you all!), I strongly suggested to my client we review the common area leading to & around the unit, the main service area/points & the roof. I also asked to review a copy of the COA, Work/Maintenance Orders and building modification/upgrades known, planned or completed. I also provided a list of areas we would like access to.

I explained that, a good inspector will view areas the community is responsible for, that may impact areas the HO is responsible for. I copied & sent her RR's Quote he uses on his reports as re-enforcement of the need for viewing/reviewing the common areas (Thanks Ray!).

The client met with her RE Agent & the COA yesterday to review the history of the unit and receive disclosure information. I happen to call her while she was still at the meeting and was handed to the RE Agent. The RE Agent stated, I would NOT be allowed access to the common areas, the roof or to any areas other than the interior area of the unit for the inspection. Period! No Inspector has ever been allowed access beyond the interior of the unit and does not need more than that. There was no room for discussion, comment or even yes maam. the phone was handed back to my client.

I spoke with my client latter in the day, when she was free, who was shocked by the attitude of "her agent" and asked if I willing to still complete the inspection. I ageed as long as the we could stipulate within the agreement that I was not allowed access outside of the unit.

This seems like a picture perfect example of "how to be sued". I downloaded the "How to avoid Litigation" and read the entire package. No matter what is contained within the report, if the HO wants to sue you, well.....

Also involved in Residential Design & PM, I'm familar with the liability issues contractors, architects & such have with condo development & redevelopment projects. This compounds the issue.

When access is specifically refused or denied, I feel the place it should be noted is on the agreement. The report is fine but, the agreement if better.

19

Originally Posted By: bsmith
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I checked the roof during the last condo inspection I had. The roof was the responsibility of the board, but I felt that it was my responsibility to check it’s condition (the roof was steep and I damn near got stuck on it). I also noticed a breach of the common firewall. The local cable company knocked a 4" hole in it to run their cables. Wrote it up and suggested that the buyer notify the board about it.

–
Bill Smith


www.SmithHomeInspection.com


“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.” A. Einstien

20

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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I inspect townhouses as I do detached dwellings. I don’t care if the townhouse is freehold, condo or co-op, etc. I’m there to inspect the condition of the unit. Type of ownership is not a factor in my report.

–
.



Paul Hinsperger
Hinsperger Inspection Services
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