Cracks found inside the unit and hallway,foundation problem?

Originally Posted By: Helen Zhang
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Hi, everyone,



I am a potential buyer of a corner unit condo on the top floor of 4-story building. (There are 40 units in this building) . I have hired a professional home inspector to do the home inspection. We found 4 cracks inside the unit: one of them starts from the entry doorframe, going to the center of the ceiling, one yard was fixed about 11 years agon, and the other yard may be fresh; one crack appears above the wood closet frame; one large crack in the center of the master bedroom. It goes horizontally for one yard, then goes downward diagonally for one yard and ends at the joint of two walls. Also, we found cracks above the wood frame of almost every door of other units in the building while we walked around the building. Besides of the cracks, we also found some slope inside the unit and in the hallway.

Attached please find those pictures of the cracks I took from inside the condo and the hallway.

My inspector think those cracks and slope are indicative o feither faulty framing or excessive setting of the main beam support columns. He suggests me to check with the condo association to find out if an engineering study has been conducted relating to this unusual movement. Otherwise, I'd better hire an structure engineer my self to check it out.

Here is some additional information about this building, 20 years old, about 200 yard from a commuter rail track.



I would like to hear your professional opinion.
I will post the inspector?s opinion about those cracks later.
![](upload://21CridhGM8y7keb2Z3aVcVq4JGL.jpeg)


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Helen,


without knowing a lot more about the structure of the building, for example its construction method, it is difficult to advise, but just based on your description and the photograph I would say that your inspector has given you very good advice, the cracking in the walls of your potential appartment look excessive and also your picture shows what appears to be moisture damage in the ceiling as well.

I certainly would want to know a lot more about the structural integrity of the building, if I were buying a unit in that apparent shape.

Regards

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: dplummer
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Hi Helen; I have to agree with Gerry’s comments. I have seen water damage situations where the building was dried out too rapidly causing cracking to plaster or concrete type finishes. All the best! Doug


Originally Posted By: Helen Zhang
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Thanks.


Originally Posted By: rray
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Without knowing Helen’s location, it would be difficult to comment.


As an example, about a year ago I did an inspection on a 3-story hillside slab home in La Jolla (that in itself was unusual). Everyone knows that hillside homes in La Jolla have cracks, a lot of them similar to those in the picture.

This specific home, however, had more cracks, more unusual cracks, more cracks in strange places, more unusual cracks in strange places, that I wanted to get out of the house before it collapsed around me. I pointed out all the interesting cracks to my Client and his agent, and recommended a foundation/structural professional/engineer. Client actually hired two engineers. After reading through 18 pages of disclaiming information, the one paragraph that mattered said: "Welcome to La Jolla."

Cracks were so ugly that Client decided not to buy the house, and we did an inspection for him in an inland location where the soil stability is a lot better.

Since I have some engineering education from Texas A&M University (civil, structural, and wood), I find the engineering reports fascinating. But it still is amazing to me what we put up with in some of these houses in these prestigious, expensive locations out here.

![icon_twisted.gif](upload://xjO326gspdTNE5QS3UTl0a0Rtvy.gif)


--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

Originally Posted By: Helen Zhang
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HI, Guys,


Thank you for your reply.

This condo is located in Medford, MA 02155. Some people told me that Medford has a reputation of bad soil.

For your information, I cited some paragraph from this structure engineer's report.



The purpose of this visit was your concern about some cracks, which occurred in the apartment that your are planning to buy, as well as in the corridor of this building.

This is a 4-story brick veneer wood frame building, according to our observations.

Upon going to the apartment of concern, we noticed some very substantial movement of the floor and cracks in the partitions of the building. It would be important first, to know whether or not, any of the people who owned the apartments below this apartment, have not removed any of the partition under in their apartment, which would have been a bad mistake. If they did not remove any of the wall under this apartment, it is our professional opinion, that the structure is very improperly supported. This is an important structural concern, which will be very expensive and difficult to diagnose and repair.

This type of movement is very concerning and in our professional opinion, cracks of that nature would recur even if they were to be locally repaired.

Upon going through the corridor, we noticed a very substantial amount of cracks. Unfortunately, we could not go to the other apartments, but, there are more reasons than none, that cracks would also have occurred in other apartments.

Upon opening some ceiling tiles in the corridor, not far form the apartment of concern, we noticed that the joists, which were supposed to e borne on the partition, were not properly supported. A movement of the partition caused this and again, there are more reasons than none, that this would be a foundation problem, or improper design of the building. Foundation problems are very expensive to repair and expensive to diagnose.

We therefore, recommend that you obtain the structural plans of this building. If the structural plans are proper, and if the persons having the apartment below the apartment of concern, have not moved any of the structure, then the next step would be to investigate the foundations.

Note that as you could not obtain the structural plans, the proper investigation of the building would be made very difficult and would have called for the exposure of the structural members.



This report addresses only those structural problems observed during the walk-through and documented above. ------No warranty or guarantee is expressed or implied with any structure---------



Let me see if I understand him correctly:

1. He thinks that those cracks were caused by people who owned the apartments below this apartment had removed something like a wall, in their apartments.

The fact is that we didn?t have access to any of those apartment below. And I have tried to talked to 2 residents I met in the parking lot. I asked them about the cracks. One said he owns his unit over 20 years, there were no any problems. The other said she owned the unit on the first floor just below the one that I was planning to buy for 7 years and she didn?t see any cracks in her units.(I wish they were telling the truth)

2 He thinks that those cracks might be caused by improper design.
I have tried my best and I just could get the original construction Documentation that the structure engineer requested. The Condo Association said they didn?t have it. I went to the city hall twice and they said they had an outdated filing system, and they just couldn?t find those structural plans.

3 He thinks that those cracks were caused by foundation problem, but it is out of his scope of work to diagnose.


So, basically he is saying that, ? there is more reason than none? that there could be structural problems with this building, but because of lack of adequate documentation and evidence, he is not sure about what caused the cracks. Am I right?

I really like this place. If it was not because of concern of those cracks, I?d really want to buy it.
As a matter of fact, I was thinking, in the past 4 months, there were 5 units of this building was sold. Why those buyer weren?t concerned about the cracks as much as I do? or it is just me overreacted or they are willing to gamble?

Please, tell me what do you think.


Helen ![icon_sad.gif](upload://nMBtKsE7kuDHGvTX96IWpBt1rTb.gif) ![icon_sad.gif](upload://nMBtKsE7kuDHGvTX96IWpBt1rTb.gif) ![icon_sad.gif](upload://nMBtKsE7kuDHGvTX96IWpBt1rTb.gif)


Originally Posted By: Helen Zhang
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Sorry about the lengthy post. Here is some additional information:


The cracks you saw in the first picture appeared above an elevator. There are cracks appear above the door fram of almost each and every entry door of every unit in the building. But those cracks were smaller and were fixed.


Thanks.

Helen


Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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Helen Zhang wrote:


As a matter of fact, I was thinking, in the past 4 months, there were 5 units of this building was sold. Why those buyer weren?t concerned about the cracks as much as I do? or it is just me overreacted or they are willing to gamble?

Helen ![icon_sad.gif](upload://nMBtKsE7kuDHGvTX96IWpBt1rTb.gif) ![icon_sad.gif](upload://nMBtKsE7kuDHGvTX96IWpBt1rTb.gif) ![icon_sad.gif](upload://nMBtKsE7kuDHGvTX96IWpBt1rTb.gif)


Another question.

Did the cracking and settlement concerns factor into the decision of the 5 other owners in selling their condo units?


--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: Helen Zhang
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Hi, Joseph,


I wish I could know the answer too.

Is there any way I can find out?

Thanks

Helen


Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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without that level of professional expertise to comment on a Professional Engineers report.


I think that you would be better served by talking the report through with the Engineer or to authorize further investigation by him.

Best wishes

Gerry


--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

Originally Posted By: Helen Zhang
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Hi, Gerry,


It was very nice to talk to you too. Thank you again for your time and advice.

Regards,


Helen


Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Helen -


I'm a home inspector with 26 years experience. I'm not a licensed engineer but have taken many structural design courses from Texas A&M, the University of Kansas; and The University of Wisconsin's School of Engineering. I grew up in a foundation family and as an Architectural Reviewer for FHA - I frequently get called upon to make judgement calls concerning the quality or thoroughness of engineers reports.

In reading your quotes from the engineer's report, it was very shallow and as you indicated - this appears well beyond his capabilities.

I have no earthly idea if what I'm gonna say pertains to your situation or not. In my area as home inspection has gotten more popular and more lucrative - I've started seeing more and more licensed PE's get into home inspections. Many naive realtors, lenders, sellers and buyers make the mistake of thinking any engineer with a PE after their name is a structural engineer - most are not - anymore than anyone with a Doctor in front of their name is automatically qualified to do a heart bypass surgery.

We see PE's with engineering degrees in electrical, mechanical, aerospace, sanitation, computer software, petroleum, marine, nuclear, and farm agricultural starting to do inspections. They take 1 seminar on structural issues and start referring to themselves as structural engineers.

You may want to pursue this thought further. Whether he is or not is not as important as is the fact that there are many tests that can be done by using laser levels to shoot elevations on the building that could be done.

I saw nothing indicating this was done.

Dan Bowers, CRI