Originally Posted By: roconnor This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
dvalley wrote:
Just fill it with mortar and simply parge coat it before the inspector arrives.
Happens more often than ya might think ...
I ran across one where a seller filled 1/2" wide foundation cracks with sealant, then painted the basement walls. Something didn't look right in one corner so I started poking around ... and bingo, 1/2" cracks ...
-- Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi to all,
analysis of foundation cracks is the black arts and also the biggest liability that home insectors have.
Based on this photo I wouls suggest that the crack is both wide enough ( and appears recent enough) to warrant further evaluation by a licensed engineer.
Joe H hit the nail on the head though, if you are going to recommend monitoring, who is going to be doing that, in this instance it would have to be done with scale strips adhered across the crack and that itself falls into engineering evaluation.
Therefore the correct answer is (IMHO) further evaluation by a professinal or structural engineer.
Originally Posted By: dedwards This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
A crack that size and length directly under a major support beam is going to get a recommendation for a professional evaluation from me every time. Fortunately, we have very few basements in Florida.
I noticed it cracked at a location where there was a fairly large area without any snap ties installed. Could that have contributed to the demise of the wall integrity?
Originally Posted By: jmurphy1 This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
It looks like it’s the center of an end wall. We have similar problems here with our clay soil.
I'm not trying to be argumentative but many of our older homes with basements have these kinds of cracks. If a basement has a crack like this and it's been stable for many years now, I wouldn't worry about buying the home. Some of our homes cracked like this 20-30 years ago and then stabilized.
Originally Posted By: jmurray This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jmurphy1 wrote:
It looks like it's the center of an end wall. We have similar problems here with our clay soil.
I'm not trying to be argumentative but many of our older homes with basements have these kinds of cracks. If a basement has a crack like this and it's been stable for many years now, I wouldn't worry about buying the home. Some of our homes cracked like this 20-30 years ago and then stabilized.
Looks like a crack(s) under a very important main beam. A main beam that would support most of the house. The crack is due to to much stress or weakness of some kind. Wonder what the threshold is before the area becomes so unstable that the beam collapses? It's hard to tell by the picture but, it looks as if the bottom part of the beam is rotating toward the crack. Also hard to tell if that is 2 cracks or something hanging down to give the appearance as such.
Realtor says it's normal.
HI says it's unstable.
What should a client do?
Realtor gets the sale.
HI goes to court!
-- "A little less conversation and a little more action"!
Originally Posted By: jmurphy1 This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I bought a home with a crack like this in the basement end wall. My inspector indicated the crack looked like it was stable and was probably okay. I was encouraged to contact an engineer if I felt the need and I didn’t.
Here where I'm at the wood beam is built into the wall and when walls push inward against the beam a chunk of concrete "pops" out on the exterior. This is what had happened to the home I bought.
I bought the home, stayed there for three years, sold it for $10 K more than I paid for it. I Put it on the market on a Friday and sold it in three days for full price.
That was my experience. I lived in the home. The home didn't collapse. My bank had no problems loaning me the money to buy the home. They didn't see this as a concern.
The Buyers had no problem buying the home from me and their bank had no concerns financing this home.
What else can I say? John Murray what would you advise on a home with a crack like this? What has been your experience actually living in a home with a crack in the wall such as this? If your experience was different than mine I would like to know. I'm just trying to learn here like everyone else.
Originally Posted By: jmurray This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jmurphy1 wrote:
I bought a home with a crack like this in the basement end wall. My inspector indicated the crack looked like it was stable and was probably okay. I was encouraged to contact an engineer if I felt the need and I didn't.
Here where I'm at the wood beam is built into the wall and when walls push inward against the beam a chunk of concrete "pops" out on the exterior. This is what had happened to the home I bought.
I bought the home, stayed there for three years, sold it for $10 K more than I paid for it. I Put it on the market on a Friday and sold it in three days for full price.
That was my experience. I lived in the home. The home didn't collapse. My bank had no problems loaning me the money to buy the home. They didn't see this as a concern.
The Buyers had no problem buying the home from me and their bank had no concerns financing this home.
What else can I say? John Murray what would you advise on a home with a crack like this? What has been your experience actually living in a home with a crack in the wall such as this? If your experience was different than mine I would like to know. I'm just trying to learn here like everyone else.
Looks like a crack(s) under a very important main beam. A main beam that would support most of the house. The crack is due to to much stress or weakness of some kind. Wonder what the threshold is before the area becomes so unstable that the beam collapses? It's hard to tell by the picture but, it looks as if the bottom part of the beam is rotating toward the crack. Also hard to tell if that is 2 cracks or something hanging down to give the appearance as such.
I think that should be clear to what I would do, no?
-- "A little less conversation and a little more action"!
Originally Posted By: smcintire This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Looks like a crack(s) under a very important main beam. A main beam that would support most of the house.
I would guess all the beams are very important. I would also think that if the house is designed correctly, the load would be evenly distributed through the entire structure and foundation. My own opinion, I would not call out a structural engineer if this was the only structural problem noted. I think you need to take into account age of home, drainage around home, soil conditions in your area and if there is other structural defects. Around here, I would be calling an engineer for every house over 30 years old, if I thought one moderate crack with no other indicators would cause failure. At most, I would recommend crack should be monitored by a licensed foundation specialist, which around here is $400 dollars an hour cheaper than an engineer.
Just my opinion, now let me have it 
Originally Posted By: tallen This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mark Anderson wrote:
 lololol  lololol  No concern & recommend monitoring? ...and $400 an hour for foundation specialist?   ....i been doing it for FREE for decades!
Please explain your view on this picture.
-- I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.
Originally Posted By: rmoore This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
smcintire wrote:
... My own opinion, I would not call out a structural engineer if this was the only structural problem noted. I think you need to take into account age of home, drainage around home, soil conditions in your area and if there is other structural defects. Around here, I would be calling an engineer for every house over 30 years old, if I thought one moderate crack with no other indicators would cause failure.
Steve...I agree, and I'll share the heat with you.  We have a lot of old basements here, and the majority (including mine) have some cracks. It doesn't help that our ground shakes occasionally. Anyway, the photo looks like a very typical settlement crack. I don't see any offset. The fact that its under the corner of a beam pocket suggests to me that that was simply the "weak point". I doubt that any stress from the beam itself caused that. If that was it on an 80 year old home, I'd recommend it be sealed, preferrably at the exterior as well as the interior and monitored by the homeowner. Of course, I'd be very concerned on new construction.
-- Richard Moore
Rest Assured Inspection Services
Seattle, WA
www.rainspect.com
Originally Posted By: smcintire This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
If that was it on an 80 year old home, I'd recommend it be sealed, preferably at the exterior as well as the interior and monitored by the homeowner
I agree
Quote:
I'd be very concerned on new construction.
I agree
Mark, please explain your position. Is this how you explain things to your clients?? Including my post above, I also feel we as home inspectors needs to make judgement calls at our own comfort level. If an inspector felt that this required an engineer and was not comfortable with it, I say yes call an engineer and protect the client! Mark, I would really like to hear your reason why this single crack on it's own is so extreme.
Originally Posted By: jmurphy1 This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
John Murray inspect this home and would probably express significant concerns to his client and suggest they bring in engineers, consultants, foundation contrators, etc. A young couple would get frightened and would spend several thousand dollars correcting these “serious issues”.
I can't argue with John for his position. His neck is on the line. He's the one signing his name on the dotted line of the inspection report.
Would I take John's adice and do those repairs? No. Not if I was the one paying the tab. I would do as I've described.
There is no reason for John or any inspector to stick their neck out. It's too big a risk. What if he's wrong? He gets sued.
I guess that's the world we live in with Larry Lawyer on every street corner looking for someone to "help".
Originally Posted By: smcintire This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
There is no reason for John or any inspector to stick their neck out. It's too big a risk
With this way of thinking what service are we doing our clients. If you think this way, you should just tell the clients to call an engineer to do the inspection from the start. Home Inspectors are professionals that our clients depend on. Engineers are professionals, which can make the call when we as professionals can't, they are not an excuse or scapegoat to use when an inspector is not a professional. This comment is not a jab at any inspector in this post. I am just sick of hearing I'm scared I'm scared of getting sued, call an engineer.
Quote:
analysis of foundation cracks is the black arts and also the biggest liability that home inspectors have
I agree, and if we are not comfortable with liability and accountability, we are in the wrong profession.
Originally Posted By: Mark Anderson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Who said ‘extreme’? Imo,If you want to protect your clients then write up exactly what you see and exactly what the crack needs…waterproof the crack correctly. GB states your analysis of cracks is your,HI, biggest liability. If so then write up what you see n what it needs to protect next homeowner from possible leak. Waterproofing the crack correctly will do just that and when done correctly 'help lessen' any future pressure on outside. Just because there isnt any big-time pressure agst that part of the wall now, n the crack isnt a big-nasty,doesnt mean it wont open up just a bit more in near future and become a problem so do/recommend all that can be done at this moment in time, waterproof crack correctly.
Many cracks in any kind of walls open up a bit more in time due to several things including lateral/hydrostatic pressure agst wall from outside due to type of soil AND Tree roots (lg bushes as well). These roots may actually dry up the soil some in the area they are in but they also will push walls inward, so outside method dug by hand,sealed correctly & backfilled correctly( all peastone) is whats best for outside/along the wall.
Nobody...not me/you Haege or the boogie man knows when a crack may or may not open up a bit more 'in time' but MANY will & do..least here in Mich they sure as heck do. So if your there to help/advise the homeowner for whats best for them to do before they sell or before they buy a home with a crack in their Bsmt wall, its certainly my advise to them when i help people who call me for FREE inspection(long as they give me enough time to fit into my sched.). I`ve been telling/explaining just this to any who listen for decades whether a city/hm inspector s.e. or whoever agrees with me or not. 
Seems to me, if you write it up this way,regardless of what the seller actually does,Your Off the Hook! I know i would certainly back any HI up in court who did all they could. If the homeowner doesnt care `n have the correct work needed done then its on Them,let Them get sued! This is exactly what i`ve explained to any judge/jury in court when i`ve been asked to help(yup,Free!) a new homeowner who got bad advise/was misled or flat out lied to. I`m talking about many diff situations including where the HI recommendation was to raise grade and/or extend downspout extensions to solve lateral-hydrostatic pressure agst outside of wall..lolol
And also when any seller tries very hard(many diff ways) to cover up cracks/bowing of walls by putting up paneling etc instead of fixing the problem correctly..patching cracks on inside and smoothing it out and then painting over it to conceal...Bogus peeps! `n on & on.
lololol