Crawlspace inspection

Archive Public Archive
#1

Originally Posted By: fmagdefrau
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


In a crawlspace inspection yesterday I noticed that all of the insulation was installed upside down. It has been like this for 23 years.


It looked damp and felt moist to me, the paper had light colored black spots on it.


I recommended to replace all the insulation and recommened a mold test.

Did I do the right thing ?

How big of a problem is this ?

Frank

#2

Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hi Frank,



I would have reported that the vapor barrier was on the cold side not the warm, and would have recommeded its removal and replacement, but I would not have recommended mold testing, as it is not in inhabited space and removal and reinstatement of the insulation and vapor barrier will solve the issue of the moisture and the resultant mold.

Regards

Gerry

--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466

Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com

"Education is a journey, not a destination"

#3

Originally Posted By: jstevens
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hi yes you did the right thing, the insulation was installed wrong ,Moisture can and will build up in the insulation and cause mold and structural damage my 2 cents worth

#4

Originally Posted By: fmagdefrau
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Thanks Gerry

#5

Originally Posted By: dhartke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I have seen insulation installed backwards, sometimes creating a moisture condition and sometimes with no obvious effects. They do it for easier installation. Each time I wonder how many perforations of the kraft or foil backing with a knife or similar sharp object would be required to disable the vapor barrier value and the installation is no longer a problem. Is this a correction or just another failed attempt? Comments?

#6

Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


dhartke wrote:
Each time I wonder how many perforations of the kraft or foil backing with a knife or similar sharp object would be required to disable the vapor barrier value and the installation is no longer a problem. Is this a correction or just another failed attempt? Comments?


Failed attempt.

In many cases, the vapor barrier is highly flammable. Left exposed, this also creates a potential fire hazard.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
#7

Originally Posted By: dhartke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


So we place the highly flammable vapor barrier towards the living area. Of course that is correct but is it indeed a vapor barrier if full of holes?

#8

Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


dhartke wrote:
Of course that is correct but is it indeed a vapor barrier if full of holes?


You lost me there. Why would there be holes in the vapor barrier if properly installed?

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
#9

Originally Posted By: jgallant
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


If no WDO/WDI damage has occurred from accumulated moisture, than an acceptable solution is to simply cut slits with a knife in the paper vapor barrier. There’s no particular need to remove it, except for inspection purposes.

–
-Jim Gallant


Owner, All Point Home Inspections - Poulsbo, WA www.allpointinspections.com


Co-founder, ReportHost (Web-based report writing service) www.reporthost.com

#10

Originally Posted By: fmagdefrau
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hi Jim,


Thanks for your simple solution, but how would that really look on a home inspection report ?

Frank

#11

Originally Posted By: jgallant
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Like this:


"The flooring insulation with a vapor barrier is installed upside-down, so the vapor barrier is on the lower side of the insulation rather than against the subfloor. This is a conducive condition for wood destroying insects and organisms due to the likelihood of moisture, in form of condensation, being trapped by the subfloor. No evidence of moisture damage was visible however. To prevent moisture accumulation in the future, recommend cutting slits in the vapor barrier to allow adequate ventilation."

This is actually a recently added concern in ReportHost's default report writing information.

--
-Jim Gallant
Owner, All Point Home Inspections - Poulsbo, WA www.allpointinspections.com
Co-founder, ReportHost (Web-based report writing service) www.reporthost.com

#12

Originally Posted By: dhartke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jim, I knew there was a reason why I liked using Reporthost so much, we think alike.


Now answer this. Why do mobile homes have a vapor barrier installed beneath the insulation and wooden floor joists? It works there.

#13

Originally Posted By: jgallant
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I just did a manufactured home this afternoon. Found a plumbing leak below the bathroom with white stains on the vapor barrier below and a puddle beneath. The vapor barrier in this one was made of woven fabric, not the usual black cardboard-like stuff I’m used to seeing. I think due to its woven construction it vented ok, but yeah, the normal cardboard-like stuff seems like it is intended to be a vapor barrier. Given that the subfloor substructure is made of steel rather than 2" dimensional lumber, it may not matter. However the floor surface itself is plywood, so maybe it does.

–
-Jim Gallant


Owner, All Point Home Inspections - Poulsbo, WA www.allpointinspections.com


Co-founder, ReportHost (Web-based report writing service) www.reporthost.com

#14

Originally Posted By: fmagdefrau
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jim,


I guess you failed to read my post were I did say the insulation looked damp and felt moist, and the paper had light colored black spots on it.

Frank

#15

Originally Posted By: jgallant
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hmmm. “Looked damp and felt moist” are ambiguous terms. The jist of it is, is the insulation damaged due to compaction from moisture and needs replacing? Is the wooden subfloor damaged from either WDO (rot) or WDI (exit holes, galleries, etc.)? Using a moisture meter on joists would be worth doing in this case.

–
-Jim Gallant


Owner, All Point Home Inspections - Poulsbo, WA www.allpointinspections.com


Co-founder, ReportHost (Web-based report writing service) www.reporthost.com

#16

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


I always thought that a vapor barrier was installed on the warm side of the home?


In the north, its toward the inside, but in the south it's toward the outside of the structure. Just something I read. MS would, I think, be considered "South".

--
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC

Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector

#17

Originally Posted By: dhartke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Kevin,


Vapor barrier toward the living space is the general rule but I have 2 questions: 1. When is the vapor barrier effect disabled?(How many cuts or holes are needed to vent incorrectly installed insulation in the crawlspace?) 2. Why do mobile homes have a vapor barrier beneath the wooden joists and insulation and its OK? Some of them are very water proof.

#18

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


http://www.buildingscience.com/resources/walls/air_barriers_vs_vapor_barriers.htm

–
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC


Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector
#19

Originally Posted By: fmagdefrau
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jim,


I use alot of your recommendation and there are some I do not use. This is only one reason why I would shut my business down without you and ReportHost. Jim, since we are on the subject, I do think it would be a bad ideal to tell someone to cut slits in there insulation. Why would you do that ? I mean really, why would you ?

Frank

#20

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


True,


That is giving a solution to a problem, which could backfire on you. If you just tell them that it is installed wrong and to have a insulation professional correct, you’ve taken all the liability off of yourself.

–
Wisconsin Home Inspection, ABC Home Inspection LLC


Search the directory for a Wisconsin Home Inspector