Certain Teed Horizon Shangle (approx 15 - 18 years)
- Defect or no defect?
There was already a thread on this! The answer is YES.
However the owner will have a hard time getting through all the paper work to get any money back since it has lasted 15-18 years.
My report would read end of life tear off all shingles and replace as necessary
Unless I was in the Kansas City area I might write a soft report and let it slide I hear they do that up there;-)
I hate to say it, but no, not a defect, it’s poor quality asphalt used for the shingles. Those are cracks, not splits, they don’t go all the way through the shingle and I doubt you’ll find any manufacturer who’ll give up a dime on it. You get what you pay for. They can show up as early as 8 years and I’ve heard claims of 6 years.
I hear what you are saying
I have seen these crazing cracks leak at 5 - 10 years thru the face of the shingle.
When I see it (Certain Teed Shangle), all are recommended for replacement.
(I apologize for the picture quality. It was raining when I was on this roof taking pictures)
I found the thread.
When does poor quality turn into defective manufacturing?
If the shingle is split through by this action, caused by resistance to shrinkage as the surface asphalt loses volatile compounds and shrinks over time, then it’s a defect. Almost all I see are cracks rather than splits, meaning they’re not split clear though and don’t leak. And even when the exposed shingle leaks there’s another one beneath it.
If the upper layer are split clear through at 18 years on a 20-year shingle, and if the terms of the warranty are still in effect, and with only about 10% of the warranty life left, maybe the homeowner or buyer could get some kind of relief.
The CertainTeed New Horizon were the subject of a class action suit, but I believe it was about failing appliqués, not craze cracking.
HMMMMM I never did wait for the roof to start leaking before recommending replacement. How many hail damaged roofs beat to death but not leaking have ever been replaced. That roof is more than likely not insurable by most standards and that is what counts at the end of the day.
When you’d have to provide an argument as to why the material still has some service value… it probably doesn’t have very much.
That roof looks like it’s at or near the end of its useful life. If that happened 2 years before the warranty was due to expire, well, shingles made with poor asphalt will do that.
I’m not saying it doesn’t need to be replaced until it leaks. I’m just saying craze cracking is not generally considered to be a manufacturing defect by manufacturers or insurance companies.
Whether it’s insurable has nothing to do with whether or not craze cracking is a manufacturer’s defect, it has to do with the condition of the roof.
This roof appears to have suffered premature failure due to the use of poor quality asphalt in its construction. I would not call it a manufacturing defect, I would call it a low quality shingle roof that is biting the dust a couple of years too soon.
If you had gone out and bought a Yugo with a 80,000 mile warranty and it fell apart at 20,000 miles, would that be a manufacturer’s defect or just a really bad car?
You said it all in one word Failure that is the only word me and or my client is interested in, why it failed is of no consequence
Yep, if it needs a new roof, that’s what they need to know.
Good job Kenton.
Kenton calls it poor quality.
I call it a Defect.
A “manufacturer’s” defect?
Is it not dependent on the amount of crazing and the style of shingle?
Manufactures defect is correct, but may only be a deficiency in certain shingles esthetic component…
If the crazing is on the top layer of a engineered architectural shingle then it will last its warranty.
Am I mistaken?
I have been saying for years the shingle manufactures get away with murder. And so do roofers in Montreal Quebec.
Usually I see the craze cracking in conjunction with premature curling of shingle edges; some as early as 5-7 years into the shingle’s life. Definitely a general drop in shingle quality throughout the industry.
I think “quality” is just word these days. Doesn’t have any meaning!
I have inspected 2 new $900,000-$1,000,000 new homes in the last couple of months- both have multiple problems (some major-$3-4,000 to $8,000) to be corrected.
Quality is market-driven. Manufacturer’s make poor quality shingles because there’s a market for them and they can make a profit.
Certain shingles might last the length of their warranty in one climate zone and not in another. So if they don’t last the length of their warranty in a harsh environment, does that mean it’s because of a manufacturer’s defect? No, they’re low or marginal quality shingles.
Inspectors don’t need to be applying labels like “manufacturer’s defect”, they just need to describe the condition of the shingles and leave it at that. When inspectors start specifying whether a problem is a manufacturer’s defect, it’s just going to increase their liability.
Any inspector who calls craze cracking a manufacturer’s defect and winds up in court is going to get big strips of skin peeled off by the manufacturer’s attorney.
Back in 2001, I was calling this defect out along with cracking thru the shingle.
You could actually count the roof rafters from the exterior as the shingles would crack along each one.
The Representatives suggested that I was wrong then…
your mileage may vary…
I say that’s different Joe. Cracking in the upper asphalt layer is one thing, but splitting though the shingle is definitely a major defect. This is just one more area of roofing that can have grey areas, and people will draw the line between poor quality and a manufacturing defect at whatever point is most advantageous to them.