CSA's A770 Standard

[FONT=Arial]I encourage all to respond.

From: Marcel Gratton [mailto:marcel@onthelevelinspection.com]
Sent: November 24, 2014 9:03 PM
To: ‘paul.gulletson@csagroup.org’
Subject: CSA’s A770 Standard

Dear Paul,

I wish to inform you that I’ve forwarded a complaint to the Competition Bureau of Canada under Abuse of Dominance Guidelines.

The structure of CSA’s committee that is bringing this proposed standard forward is comprised with less than 1/3 of its members from the home inspection profession. Dominance within CSA’s committee structure developing the A770 Standards is of concern to me.

The National Occupational Standards (NOS): A number of occupational reviews have been successfully completed over the past decade within Canada by subject matter experts and qualified facilitators. Two of these were substantially funded at the federal level by Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation (CMHC) and Human Resources Skills Development Canada (HRSDC). The industry has already created National Standards, but the NOS appear to have been disregarded in the creation of CSA’s A770 Standard. Home inspectors have operated for well over 3 decades performing to a recognized, reasonable and fair Standard of Practice. All that is needed is for everyone to consider the value and framework based on years of commitment, development and research that applies to what the Canadian Home Inspection sector already created.

CSA’s A770 Stan******dard in its present form is significantly flawed, drastically changes my profession and most likely would be the end for my profession.
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***Members:**G. Yates(Chair), R. Guinn(Vice-Chair), D. Aylward, D. Babott, M. Barnes, R. Brady, G. Clarke, J. Eakes, G.R. Genge, R. Hanberg, J.A. Huzar, R. Jobin, D. Kendall, G.R. Larin, L. Leyser, M. Lio, J. Londerville, S. Low, D. Mah, J. Mills, P. Sayne, K. Smith, B. Swan, J. Thomson, T. Welby-Solomon, M. Wellsch, J. Wright
[FONT=Calibri]Associates: B.M. Collie, S. Hood, B. Mullen, J. Urquhart
For Information: K. Fenning, J. Ko[/FONT]
(RAC)
**Members:*D. Aylward, M. Barnes, D. Brezer, K.E. Hanson, S. Hood, J. Ko, G. MacKinnon-Peters, D. Murray, M. Wellsch, G. Yates, B. Greer, A. Nicholson, A. Skelton, C. Stewart, B. Valido

Sincerely,

Thanks Marcel great find ,

Thanks for posting so all can see what some are trying to do to our industry .

This needs to be seen by all in the Home Inspection industry in Canada.

I have forwarded a complaint! Everyone should do so as well !!:twisted:

Cheers

Bump
Lets all get on the band wagon and make formal complaints about this process, as mentioned above!
Cheers

French version at
http://publicreview.csa.ca/Home/Details/1393

G

Good move Hope all get to read and send in their thoughts …
Thanks. Roy

Complaint sent. FYI some info:
CSA group
Standards development

www.csagroup.org
178 Rexdale Blvd.
Toronto, On, Can
M9W 1R3
416-747-4000

Paul Gulletson
paul.gulletson@csagroup.org

I filed a complaint with the Competition Bureau, as stated above.
I got a response :stuck_out_tongue:

They will contact me next week to follow up!

YEA!!!

Cheers

Same hear Doug.

I wonder how many out those 27 members on the A770 Draft Review committee are presently doing home inspections for a living?

Not many, I’ll bet
That is the problem!

Lets hope these complaints lead to a positive result.

Cheers

***Members:**G. Yates(Chair), R. Guinn(Vice-Chair), D. Aylward, D. Babott, M. Barnes, R. Brady, G. Clarke, J. Eakes, G.R. Genge, R. Hanberg, J.A. Huzar, R. Jobin, D. Kendall, G.R. Larin, L. Leyser, M. Lio, J. Londerville, S. Low, D. Mah, J. Mills, P. Sayne, K. Smith, B. Swan, J. Thomson, T. Welby-Solomon, M. Wellsch, J. Wright
[FONT=Calibri]Associates: B.M. Collie, S. Hood, B. Mullen, J. Urquhart

A very select group is all I can say.
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I only recognize one or two names who are these people and what is their background? Does anyone know?

Just curious

I put names which I recognized below. Question mark on left of name is names not confirmed. Feel free to add.

Members: (27)

G. Yates(Chair),

R. Guinn(Vice-Chair),

D. Aylward,

D. Babott,

M. Barnes

[FONT=Calibri]? R. Brady, Robert Brady, TSSA Consumers Advisory Council[/FONT]
http://www.tssa.org/corplibrary/ArticleFile.asp?Instance=136&ID=DA444CBC0EAD11E4A788000C2922855A](http://www.tssa.org/corplibrary/ArticleFile.asp?Instance=136&ID=DA444CBC0EAD11E4A788000C2922855A)

G. Clarke, Graham Clarke Vice-President of Engineering at Carson Dunlop

? J. Eakes, Jon Eakes http://www.joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/2203-who-is-jon-eakes-](http://www.joneakes.com/jons-fixit-database/2203-who-is-jon-eakes-)

G.R. Genge,

R. Hanberg,

J.A. Huzar,

R. Jobin, Richard (Bud) Jobin, First Nation Buildings Official (FNNBOA)

D. Kendall, PHPIC’s past chair

G.R. Larin, InterNACHI Quebec President

L. Leyser, Laura Leyser, Realtor http://www.remax.ca/on/laura-leyser-2646-ag/](http://www.remax.ca/on/laura-leyser-2646-ag/)

M. Lio, Michael Lio,

J. Londerville,

S. Low,

D. Mah, Don Mah, PhD, Peng, https://ca.linkedin.com/pub/don-mah-phd-peng/12/277/447](https://ca.linkedin.com/pub/don-mah-phd-peng/12/277/447)

? J. Mills, John Mills & Associates, http://www.johnmills.ca/inspections/home.php](http://www.johnmills.ca/inspections/home.php)

P. Sayne, Pam Sayne, OAHI past President

K. Smith, Kim Smith, HUB

B. Swan, Brian Swan, CAPHI President

J. Thomson,

T. Welby-Solomon, Trevor Welby-Solomon, Pillar to post franchise owner

M. Wellsch,

? J. Wright, Eagle Eye Inspection Services, Barrie

Associates:

B.M. Collie,

S. Hood, Scott Hood, Service Alberta

B. Mullen, Bill Mullen, CAPHI past President

J. Urquhart

Michael Lio is the only other person whom I know personally.

Thanks, Marcel, my count approximately 8 out of the 27 are home inspectors. Perhaps several represent other roles. My take that leaves the others as non-home inspector stakeholders.

I have had personal acquaintances/met with Scott Hood and Don Mah from Services Alberta and Richard (Bud) Jobin that is a First Nations Building Officer (FNNBOA). Of course I also know most all of the home inspect reps.

Therein lies the problem!
Why on earth does a TV personality, a realtor or the rep from an insurance company have any say in preparing a standard for home inspectors? Who knows about the others!
Sheesh:twisted:

So the competition bureau said they would be getting back to me as well. Just so it looks like we are a preparing a uniform argument what points do you guys intend to raise?

-lack of reasonable representation of home inspectors on the panel (this I think is the big one–as mentioned above–why are real estate agents and insurance providers offering input–don’t they have their own standards by which they operate??)

-redundant creation of standards that dramatically increase cost to the consumer while providing no appreciable benefit (square footage of house, make and model number from every device tested, other good ones?)

-inclusion of items that have never been part of a home inspection(horticultural issues and wood boring insects outside the home). This again would add significant costs to consumers and have the affect of deterring consumers from having a home inspection done. I liken this to hiring a dentist to look at other bones in the body…

-presenting poorly written draft standard with the expectation that we (the home inspection industry) would re-write it for them at no cost so that they in turn could turn around and sell it back to us.

-Inevitably some of the persons on the board (those that offer home inspection education) will be offering courses to meet the standards which they helped to create, which seems to be a huge conflict of interest.

In a nut shell, they have inserted themselves into the home inspection process, thereby creating a revenue generating stream for themselves where none existed before, while significantly altering an industry that they have no stake in.

Well said thanks Stuart

Although I understand the need for outside public input, traditionally an occupational analysis is comprised of workers from the occupation. As the saying goes “who best knows and can describe what home inspectors do”?

Validation of standards can happen by seeking input and feedback after a base standard is established. The DACUM process has worked successfully in the creation of “industry standards” for decades.

The question is why re-invent what was already created over the past decade? Here’s the background start of where the industry started to address this issue of standards.
http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publications/en/rh-pr/tech/tech00-131-e.html

Thanks for the upgrade Claude ,Glad you have this info… Roy