200 Amps service panel feeding a auxiliary panel, no disconnect.
Me think that there should be a disconnect in the service panel to protect the auxiliary panel feeders; what do you think?
Yep.
They double tapped those lugs to feed the RDP(aux panel). It needs to be fixed.
Are they called aux panels in Canada?
I see a 4 wire feed, is there a disconnect elsewhere?
One violation that stands out is a classic double tap at the main lugs.
Well…I have to say that quoting on pictures where the entire setup is not shown is always going to raise debate and question. But with that said…
I notice that the “double tap” that is taking place has two different size conductors so is their a OCPD ahead of the “double tap” location?
And if their is…they may THINK they are using the tap rules in 240.21…but again the lug would prohibit that since it is incorrectly done. regardless of the “double tap” I would be more concerned that you have two different size conductors in that lug which means that one of them is less likely to be torqued properly and is yet another issue…and we all know what loose connections and loads can cause…don’t we?
Not to mention that since we can’t apply the Tap Rules in 240.21 then the smaller conductor is not protected at it’s ampacity and that’s a concern as well.
My suggestion to all those who post pictures (and I am not picking on you marcel, this is a general statement) make sure you show the complete system from the main disconnection means to the end remote distribution panel. Really helps to add information.
Oh and while it may be there…just cant see it…notice the grounded (neutral) conductor in the remote panel…connects to the bar on the left…but the neutrals connect to the bar on the right…that’s why I hate images…are we assuming the two bars are connected…hope so.
Just my thoughts…and in case I missed something…well…you know I hate commenting on pictures…lol
In this case, disconnect is not the proper term; overcurrent protection device is what’s needed.
Let’s not get too technical here, I’m not a licensed electrician…
But you’re right on your observation.
You bring up a good point, but unfortunetly its not likely those lugs are rated for 2 conductors. The torqueing you mention is a perfect example of why the connection may loosen and not work for 2 conductors.
Thanks Paul!
Your comments are always welcome, even in Canada, and I certainly appreciate them.
Here is the big picture:
600 amps service panel feeding 13 X 100 amps subpanels (12 apartments with breaker panels) and 1 X 200 amps subpanel which is feeding a subpanel which are for common areas and also 2 bachelors.
Attached are some pics of the system, as much as you dislike pics…
My report is already gone for that inspection wherein I recommended that a qualified electrician be contacted for repair of improper doubled lugged connections at breakers and at feeders from common areas panel to its auxiliary panel.
Neutrals from the auxiliary panel appear to be isolated from ground. But there again, as inspector, should we be inserting equipment probe
in panel to confirm, not!
Cheers,
Just remember the Electrons don’t care what country you are in or come from…they are totally NEUTRAL…lol…man I kill me.:shock:
Correct. The wires are double tapped and those going to sub-panel are a smaller gauge.
I was licensed in Quebec, then moved to Ontario. Do not remember ever being able to use two conductors in a single lug; and that is going back to mid-1970’s.
According to 110.14(A) lugs used for more than one conductor need to be listed as such. As an example you can see the marking on these terminals for two conductors:
110.14(A) Terminals. Connection of conductors to terminal parts shall ensure a thoroughly good connection without damaging the conductors and shall be made by means of pressure connectors (including set-screw type), solder lugs, or splices to
flexible leads. Connection by means of wire-binding screws or
studs and nuts that have upturned lugs or the equivalent shall
be permitted for 10 AWG or smaller conductors.
Terminals for more than one conductor and terminals
used to connect aluminum shall be so identified.
Thank you all, good information!