60 year old home, NUMEROUS defects, the biggest concern I have is that I do not see a neutral conductor in the service panel, or at the breaker panel.
Also, 60 amp sub being double tapped from the 100 amp lugs, no isolated neutrals at breaker panel, double taps at the subs, oversized breakers, distribution panels not bonded, etc etc…
I have never seen missing neutrals, just curious if I am missing something? The service cables do have one going into the meter. But then the main disconnect panel just has 2 ungrounded conductors, and the EGC feeding the breaker panel.
There are also two other distribution panels that are being fed directly from the meter, and I doubt the meter can have 3 different feeds coming from it without a double lug?
Also, with all the subs, 60 amp breakers, and the overhead service cables only appear to be rated for 100 or maybe 150 amp service.
And what about those 60 amp breakers in the sub being fed by a 12 awg, after being double tapped with the 2 awg feeders?
To the right of the meter is the service panel (disconnect) with just the 100 amp OCPD
Right? How have some if these things been this way for so long without someone noticing?
Side note, this home was a fix and flip, and they obviously didn’t want to deal with the electric, hoping the buyers don’t get an inspection!
Not that it matters much, but the neutral is clearly visible in the close up of the incoming panel lugs. Also the system would not work without a neutral unless all the loads were strictly 240 loads. In at least one of the panels the grounding conductor is being used as the neutral.
Yes, there is one distribution panel out of the 3 that appears to have a neutral, and the others are just 240v circuits. But the service panel with the 100 amp ocpd only has 2 ungrounded conductors and an EGC leaving it.
Everything would still work, just not safely, right? Because the uninsulated egc would still be carrying the current back to the service panel, unless they were isolated like they should be, in which case everything would read “open neutral”.
There is no neutral conductor on that breaker panel bus, just 2 EGC’s. One comes from the service, one goes to that sub panel to the right.
Why do you need neutral for 240 circuit? Those 240V disconnects are obviously not serving any 120V circuits. So what is the issue? Double lugging main lugs not rated for 2 conductors is wrong and the feeders require proper OCPD. At least they have SPD
I guess I need to take that part out of the questions and those pictures.
I am concerned about the breaker panel feeding all the 120 circuits for the whole home. That one has no neutral conductor that I can see, and there is no neutral leaving the main service panel with the 100 amp OCPD. It only has 2 ungrounded conductors and an EGC from the service. And they are not isolated, so is the EGC serving as the return path? because nothing tested open neutral.
Too many pics, they’re not labelled… which one is the main and which is the remote distribution?
I looked closer for you… if the last pic is the main disconnect to the right of the meter, it has a neutral in it and the metal (if it is) conduit can serve as the EGC going to the subpanel. The subpanel (if pictured in 3rd pic) has a neutral going to it from the main disconnect and can be seen in the upper right corner. Be careful how you call things out. The neutrals in the subpanel are not separated from the EGCs/panel.
Sorry about that, I reorganized the pics.
So the breaker panel is inside the garage, but on the other side of the home. There is no conduit connecting them. Thats why I believe they have the grounds and neutrals bonded in the breaker panel, to provide some sort of return path, correct? Also, is it allowed to use a bare conductor for the neutral back to the service, if it did have a metal conduit for EGC?
If the garage is attached, you need a 4 conductor feeder to it (has been like this for many decades), the only exception is a detached building pre 2008 where the neutral also served as a EGC. The neutral has to be insulated, it is a current carrying conductor.
Yes, thx. I understand all that, but I was confused when you said that the panel had a neutral conductor because all it has is the bare EGC. So is it correct that the only reason it works like this is because the EGC is acting as the neutral? Which would be a huge safety hazard, correct? (Since it’s not insulated, and runs all the way across the home in the attic)
Have you seen it this way before? You’re right, it’s probably been this way for 60 years
There is a reason why manufacturers put all those knockouts in the service panels. I don’t understand why some people want to shove as many conductors through a single hole as physically possible.
I see that too. I call it out as inappropriate, but have been reamed by a couple of electricians that it is “fine” for the surge arrestor to be installed this way.
