Originally Posted By: srowe
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Picture_022.jpg ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Picture_024.jpg ]
http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Picture_022.jpg ]
[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/P/Picture_024.jpg ]
Originally Posted By: jpope
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I’m not sure if there is a “code reference” for double tapped breakers, but it’s certainly a manufacturers requirement.
Breakers are "listed" for use with one or two wires (in your case it's listed for only one wire).
--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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Jeff, is that a 12 on a 40 amp ??
–
Member - MAB
http://www.nachi.org/convention2006.htm
Originally Posted By: srowe
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| Quote: |
| SIEMENS QP breakers |
Not having much luck on the Siemens website. Thanks
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Shawn,
Siemens QP series breakers are not rated for double taps.
--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz
Originally Posted By: srowe
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Joe,
where can I get that in black and white…realtor is not so happy with me because electrician says its not a big deal… I know…beyond a home inspection stuff but…I guess I would like to explain.
Thanks
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Shawn,
What you are looking for is the UL classification, not a breaker specification. You will actually find the classification on the breaker itself in the form of a UL stamp, that it meets the standards for two wires under the termination.
I think it was UL 489, but don't quote me on that.
There are not many breakers that do meet that standard. I know the QO series do, but I can't remember the other ones. If you do a search on our boards for double lugging or double tapping, you will probably find the information in another thread.
If worse comes to worse, go to:
http://www.mikeholt.com
I am sure you will find that information there.
--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz
Originally Posted By: lkage
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| jmyers wrote: |
| Shawn,
There are not many breakers that do meet that standard. I know the QO series do, but I can't remember the other ones. If you do a search on our boards for double lugging or double tapping, you will probably find the information in another thread. |
Look here: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=331
--
"I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei
Originally Posted By: jpope
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| kwilliams wrote: |
| Jeff, is that a 12 on a 40 amp ?? |
It appears to be so, but these surge protectors are a bit like A/C condensers in that they will specify the breaker rating to which they are connected regardless of their wire size.
Don't ask me how they work. We don't get much lightning out here, only tornadoes and water spouts.
--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Shawn,
While I don't know who the electrician was, but certainly he would agree that if it was not that big of a deal, there would be no need for the manufacturers to make twin breakers! Or for UL to rate them for one or two wires. They can just start putting as many wires in there that they want. 
Think of how much money they could save in breakers if they just started throwing three or four wires under each breaker.
I would be willing to bet the breaker manufacturers won't like that idea!
I would also be willing to bet the NFPA wouldn't be thrilled about it either!
--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz
Originally Posted By: ekartal
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I believe certain Square D breakers allow for double taps.
Originally Posted By: Kyle Kubs
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Believe it or not this is actually ok the way it is wired… Because it is a “surge suppressor” and the manufacturer specs it that way the smaller gauge wiring is fine. Being double tapped off of the higher amp. breaker where you have two stranded wires that the breaker terminal really can’t tell from one wire is not a problem either… This is a very commonly accepted practice. I don’t write them up. Once I put one in on a separate breaker on a new panel install and the code inspector actually said “most people just put it with the a/c breaker…” Installed double tapped on a 20 amp breaker, that would be different.
–
Those that say it cannot be done should stop interupting those of us who are hard at work, doing it…
Originally Posted By: jpope
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| ekartal wrote: |
| I believe certain Square D breakers allow for double taps. |
Not "double taps," but two wires.
Double tap is a term reserved for use to describe a defect (two wires where only one is allowed). Square D makes breakers that allow for two wires to be properly attached.
--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: ekartal
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I knew I should have double checked (pun intended).
Originally Posted By: jpope
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–
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: dnewby
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Originally Posted By: srowe
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allow this ?
the UL number on the breaker in question appears to say VS-917
Does anyone know the UL number for the Square D QO breakers that allow two wires?
Originally Posted By: srowe
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http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/l/lug.jpg ]
Here is link if anyone wants it for reference.
http://www.sea.siemens.com/speedfax04/sec01/01-30.pdf
Thanks for all the input 
Originally Posted By: bbadger
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OK
ALL breakers must be marked with the ratings of the terminals.
You never have to look further than the breaker itself for the terminal info.
The only exception to that would be if the breaker had a paper tag that fell of.
One problem is many times the info is on the side of the breaker so that you need to be able to see the side of it.
The rating will say something like this
14 - 8 AWG CU
This tells us the terminal is rated for ONE 14 to 8 AWG copper conductor.
If the rating looks something like this;
2 14 - 8 AWG CU
It tells us 2 wires are permitted.
The basic rule is one wire one terminal unless otherwise marked.
As far as the surge suppressor even if the instructions that come with it say to double tap it is a violation unless the breaker is rated for it.
--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Donna,
I believe Bob B. explained that rather well.
Bob,
In the case where you have breakers rated for one wire would adding a pigtail be an appropriate fix?
--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz