Yeah, many authorities and exemptions, etc.just on this link: http://www.tn.gov/fire/electInsSec.shtml
Maybe talkin’ real nice to the wife, when she gets home will help, David…LOL…:p:mrgreen:
No.
The short answer is that under certain circumstances, Voltages up to 240V can be impressed across 120V loads. That’s a major cause of fires.
Without that neutral, there is no way to know what the voltage will be at any receptacle on that branch circuit. Could be 70V, could be 240, could be anything. Not good for your 96" flat screen either…but you might be able to blend ONE margarita in about 3 seconds.
Three second margarita? Maybe losing the neutral isn’t such a bad thing …
I am an electrician by craft with fifty years in the trade. I am not, however a certified electrical or home inspector.
The NEC has always required that equipment be installed in accordance with it’s listing and labeling. since the Listing standard on panel boards has always forbidden the practice of terminating two neutral conductors in a terminal listed for one conductor the practice has been a violation of the NEC for a very long time. The language was added to the NEC to make the rule more accessible rather than to establish a new rule. My position is that it was code violation when the panel was installed because it has been a violation of the listing and labeling from time out of mind. For that reason corrective action can be required.
Tom
I agree.
The problem is that a large number of panels where installed in this manner by electricians and inspected and approved by local AHJs.
That said I call it out every time I see it and that is often.
Question please.
How does that happen?
It’s true.
I can believe that ,but would like to know how it jumps up.
There is 240 between adjacent breakers for instance.
Without the neutral connection you have 240 volts.
The voltage on each branch will be dependent on the connected load.
I’m sorry ! still don’t see it.
Ok I have the black on the breaker and the white on the neutral bar.
The white comes loose and now I could have 240 on that breaker.
I’m sure I’m missing something.
The issue is two neutrals that MAY be associated with opposing phases giving 240 across the circuit if the two neutrals are touching and not secured to the neutral bus which is at ground potential.
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Thanks! I’ll have to ponder over that .
Roy,
Follow this link:
https://app.box.com/signup/collablink/d_265248917/386d6a89f246e
It will give you access to the BestInspectors.Net Members shared folder on Box.com. Go into the sub-folder “BestInspectors.Net - Mgt Science Institute Educational”.
Great George I have not heard from you for a very long time. I think its time I get you on my linkedIn list.
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So, do you get push back by the realtors who think you’re only being picky when a licensed electrician installed the panel and the inspectors passed it? I’m inspecting homes from the 2005-2010 range that have multiple double & triple taps on the bar, and the realtors are citing the other home inspectors who passed the panel a few years ago when the present owner purchased (so I’m just being picky). InterNACHI says this is a defect in the tutorials… ???
Back before my retirement I sometimes was called in by home inspector to look at something that just didn’t look right. His instincts never failed him. All I had to do was provide the chapter and verse from the code to use in his report. In one case were the Real Estate Agent was saying that the problem was grandfathered she became quite angry when I promised that the listing for the panel did not include the use of double breakers. She was even more upset when the Home Inspector included the listing information in his report. He had a copy of the listing right out of the UL Building Materials List. Back then they charged a fee to fax you the listing but they may have it available online now.
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Tom Horne
That’s right except there aren’t two opposing phases. There are two legs (ends) to a single phase (coil). There is a wire tapped off the center of the coil. The center tapped wire is the neutral.
Two-phase systems exist but are obsolete. They are rare and almost completely nonexistent West of the Mississippi. Most of the few that remain are along the East coast.
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Devin
Would it be useful to you if I pasted the language from the National Electrical Code here?
Panels are often labeled that the neutral bar will except two or three wires of a given size under one terminal screw but that was only meant to apply to Equipment Grounding Conductors (EGCs). More recently the manufacturer’s have changed the labeling so that the wording specifically names Equipment Grounding Conductors in a separate table. What makes multiple EGCs in one terminal safe is that EGCs only carry current during a fault condition which should be extremely brief. With the Grounded Current Carrying Conductor; which most practitioners call the neutral regardless of whether it is actually functioning as one; the current flow under normal operating conditions will rise and fall as the loads change. That causes the condutor to expand and contract. It is rather unlikely that that expansion and contraction will be uniform between the two or three Grounded System Conductors in a single terminal that will cause a gradual loosening of the terminal. Then you wind up with an open “Neutral” which others have pointed out will lead to erratic voltages in the system.
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Tom Horne
Retired Electrician.