EIFS failure...

Originally Posted By: bnelson
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I haven’t seen but two EIFS houses; the first was visibly perfect. This one, however, had these failures at all windows. Can I get a little help in wording this defect and proposed repair?


[img]http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/more/ysseldyk pix 004.jpg[/img]


Originally Posted By: jpeck
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I thought all EIFS houses were failures. icon_biggrin.gif


We don't have them down here, but everything I've heard says that there is no way to do it "perfectly", and that if it is not done "perfectly" it will fail. Thus all EIFS houses are failing.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

Originally Posted By: Guest
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I wouldn’t even think about suggesting a method of repair. What if they follow your instructions and then it still leaks? (It will). Defer to an exert EIFS installer.


Originally Posted By: jpope
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bnelson wrote:
Can I get a little help in wording this defect and proposed repair?


Why would you want to tell them how to fix it? The defect part is simple. If it's EIFS, it's defective, especially in Washington State where it rains 70% of the year.

"Exterior Insulated Finish Systems (EIFS) are documented to have a high failure rate. The integrity of the system cannot be determined by a visual inspection. Recommend contacting the manufacturer for a list of contractors specializing in EIFS for inspection and repairs."


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: wengelking
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I attended a home inspection class that was also approved for continuing education for Realtors. On the subject of EIFS, one realtor asked “So what do you want? Should we burn them all down?”. The instructor (home inspector) suggested to just make sure it is installed properly. I have only seen a couple, but not all critical areas were visible.


Any of you have a suggestion?


Walter


Originally Posted By: Guest
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From what I’ve read and from what I’ve seen there is no good answer for these homes short of stripping the exterior cladding and applying some other type. The sad part is, like vinyl siding, the EIFS itself is unaffected for the most part and conceals the damage until it’s a serious structural problem.


For what it's worth, a friend of mine owns a home he built himself using EIFS and he paid meticulous attention to flashing, drainage planes and also built in a substantial overhang so the walls stay pretty damn dry. His home is performing very nicely after ten or eleven years. But this guy's a detail freak who didn't build for profit.


Originally Posted By: jane molina
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How can you tell if a home has EIFS/ Does it make a hollow sound when you


tap on it ? isn’t it just the foam board that is different than the regular stucco


wall without drainage. Really the problem with these are that they were not installed correctly and leak around the windows and doors and were not intended for drainage , correct. i saw a house that had a big 1 inch hole in it


and i touched it and it was foam , is this EIFS?


Originally Posted By: aslimack
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Jane, EIFS or Drivit,as it we called it about 20 years ago when i used to install it(because that was the brand we mostly used), does sound hollow when tapped. The most common application i was part of was usually exterior rated board screwed to heavy gauge steel stud walls. We then would “butter” 2’ by 4’ sheets of 1" foam board with a cement base coat, a mix of the base product,mixed with type 1 portland cement and water. After adhering the foam, you trowel on the base coat over all the foam and apply a nylon mesh over the foam. This is to prevent cracking at the foam joints and provide strength. Follow with one more thin coat of primer coat, and finish (after drying) with the choice color of finish coat. Don’t remember what the chips were made of,(Marble?) but i think it was mixed in a latex to make up the finish coat. The texture is provided by floating the trowel. So after all that, the point was that the hollow sound you hear when tapping is from the foam encapsulated by the cement and finish coat. Hope that helps.


Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Brandon -


I've done EIFS moisture inspections, construction installation inspections and expert witness court testimony on EIFS, stucco, and moisture analysis for 6 years now. I'm certified by EDI, AWCI, Stucco-Pro, Moisture Bond, and NAHB - I would not try to completely tell someone how to fix it and 98% of all home inspectors are not qualified or trained to do so.

Most home inspectors telling a customer what repairs are needed on an EIFS are a litigation attorneys wet dream come true.

Your comments should be to refer them to a Certified EDI or AWCI Stucco Inspector for moisture testing, etc.


Originally Posted By: tallen
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Is EIFS still a problem when it has a weep screed installed? Or is this not considered EIFS anymore? icon_confused.gif



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: aslimack
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Chad, Back in my EIFS days, i recall going out your way,(Ra cha cha )and installing i think, a blue stripe on a Champion Outlet warehouse using Drivit. As i remember, the stripe was about 3/4 of the way up the wall. I don’t remember exactly where it was ,and who knows if Champion still owns the building. Also remember doing the exterior of, i think, a 7+ story building by ,was it War Memorial Stadium? …Ahhh the memories…


Originally Posted By: ekartal
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Back to Jane’s Question. I have never seen a EIFS property myself. How can you tell from the exterior? I understand how EIFS are suppose to function by diagram only.


Erol Kartal


Originally Posted By: aslimack
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Erol, The exterior of a good number of retail buildings in my area are EIFS. perhaps in yours as well. The local Walmart here, as well as a # of grocery stores,ect. Don’t really see it on residential construction around here, very rarely. A lot of times at Walmart,ect.,you will see shopping cart dings in the exterior coating on the columns, also EIFS, where you can see the white foam peeking through from underneath. You should also see traces of a blue/green mesh. Assuming Walmart repeats the use of materials on all/most of their stores nationwide, this may give you a good example.


Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Todd -


EIFS is a very good product when installed correctly. In 6 years I've seen 2 EIFS systems installed correctly.

What you need to know is (1) high liability item for you; and (2) refer it to an EIFS certified inspector for further analysis.


Originally Posted By: tallen
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Thanks Dan,


I am still a little confused though



OK we have a lot of homes here with the foam behind the stucco finish. The foam is covered with chicken wire to hold the stucco.

? is on some installations the screed at the bottom( 6-8" above grade) sometimes is solid (no weep holes) and sometimes it has 1/4" holes every couple of inches. It would seem that the installation with the weep holes would allow moisture to escape unlike the ones with no holes. I have been under the impression that the installation with the weep screed was ok ,but to right it up if there is no drain holes. Help!!!

Thanks in advance


--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.

www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: tallen
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This is an interesting site.


http://www.eima.com/


--
I have put the past behind me,
where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.

www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Todd -


Your referral to "chicken wire" throws me. EIFS is installed over plastic mesh. Hardcoat stucco is installed over metal wire (called mesh, lathe, etc). If you have metal wire, mesh, etc. you don't have EIFS.


Originally Posted By: jhagarty
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tallen wrote:
This is an interesting site.

http://www.eima.com/


Todd:

Thanks for the link.


--
Joseph Hagarty

HouseMaster / Main Line, PA
joseph.hagarty@housemaster.com
www.householdinspector.com

Phone: 610-399-9864
Fax : 610-399-9865

HouseMaster. Home inspections. Done right.

Originally Posted By: tallen
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icon_cool.gif



I have put the past behind me,


where , however, it now sits, making rude remarks.


www.whiteglovehomeinspections.net

30 Oct 2003-- 29 Nov2005

Originally Posted By: dbowers
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Todd -


Are you sure you're not seeing regular insulation board (foam) with wire mesh and stucco over it (not EIFS). EIFS typically use EPS board (Foam)or Poly-ISO (not regular house insulation foam).