Electrical On Decks

[Jim_Port]

Thanks for the refresher on the square footage.

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI)]

@mlarson

Yes and available at ground level.

So deck or no deck it’s good practice to advise/recommend receptacles at exterior.

[jfrederick (Joshua Frederick)]

Regardless of codes and/or any requirements, I oftern use a common sense approach when inspecting or writing reports. I ask myself, is this something I’d want to be aware of if my family and I were moving here? Having no outlets on a large, nice deck like this is a no-brainer to me. Suggest upgrade/improvement of installing and why and put the nice INACHI graphic with it & move on.
I could see it now, your clients buy the house and invite all their family & friends over for a house warming party. They go to plug in their IPod player to show off their awsome “party tunes” songlist… or they go to blow the leaves off the deck with their electric leaf blower…

[jfunderburk (Joe Funderburk, CMI)]

2009 IRC (and I think the 2008 NEC) requires an outlet at decks, patios, balconies. I’d call it out if that code was in effect when the house was built.

[jwhitt (Joseph M. Whitt)]

The 2011 NEC calls for one no matter the size of the deck but if there is not one there it is nothing more than a call unless it was required at the time the house was built.

As an electrical contractor I would quote the code at the time the house was built and if the code at that time didn’t call for one then there would be no requirement to install one now.

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI)]

@jwhitt

The 2011 NEC calls for one no matter the size of the deck but if there is not one there it is nothing more than a call unless it was required at the time the house was built.

As an electrical contractor I would quote the code at the time the house was built and if the code at that time didn’t call for one then there would be no requirement to install one now.

Does it count if it’s next to the deck?

Built in 2011.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@ccurrins

Does it count if it’s next to the deck?

Built in 2011.

It wouldn’t count as the required deck receptacle. If the construction were under the 2008 NEC then a receptacle wouldn’t be required at all on that deck. Under the 2011 NEC one would be required.

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI)]

@Robert_Meier

It wouldn’t count as the required deck receptacle. If the construction were under the 2008 NEC then a receptacle wouldn’t be required at all on that deck. Under the 2011 NEC one would be required.

It was built in 2011, but probably under '08, or even '06 NEC.

I don’t think any jurisdictions in my area are using 2011 NEC, yet.

[jwhitt (Joseph M. Whitt)]

@ccurrins

Does it count if it’s next to the deck?

Built in 2011.

Where are the steps? This deck wouldn’t pass code in the first place but under the 2011 code it would require a receptacle

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@jwhitt

Where are the steps? This deck wouldn’t pass code in the first place but under the 2011 code it would require a receptacle

Mike I’m curious, why wouldn’t it pass? Does a balcony require steps?

[Jim_Port]

deleted…

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@Jim_Port

There is an exception listed to 210.50(E)(3) in the 08, that exempts this requirement if less than 20 sq. foot. Using the slider as a gauge I would say that balcony looks like about 3’ x 3’. I do not remember this changing in the 2011.

I took another look at the 2011 and the 20 sq ft exception has been removed.

Here’s the reason why:

2-266 Log #1148 NEC-P02 Final Action: Accept
(210.52(E)(3) Exception)

---

Submitter: Vince Baclawski, National Electrical Manufacturers Association
(NEMA)
Recommendation: Delete the Exception:
Exception to (3): Balconies, decks, or porches with a usable area of less than
1.86 m2 (20 ft2) are not required to have a receptacle installed.
Substantiation: If a porch, deck or balcony is accessible, the safety of having
a receptacle installed should be provided. There should be no distinction
between sizes of these areas. The code rule intent is to avoid cords from
passing through doorways. There is no less chance that this would occur for
small porches, decks or balconies. These smaller areas will have holiday
lighting and small appliances used there. Please reference Mr. King’s
Explanation of Negative in 2008 ROC 2-230.
KING, D.: I disagree with the Panel that a minimum dimension of 20 sq. ft
should be a condition for this requirement. If a porch, deck or balcony is
accessible and intended for use by occupants of the dwelling than a receptacle
should be required regardless of the minimum dimension. The purpose of this
section is to eliminate the use of cords through doorways to supply electrical
equipment at these locations. Cords passed through doorways are a potential
cause for electrical shock and fire due to damage that can easily occur to the
cord where it passes through the doorway. Acceptance of this Comment will
allow this hazardous condition to continue to exist for porches, decks and
balconies that are less than 20 sq. ft.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept
Number Eligible to Vote: 12
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 11 Negative: 1

[bkelly2 (Brian Kelly, AZ Cert. # 60234)]

Good info TY Robert

[Jim_Port]

Thanks Robert.

[jwhitt (Joseph M. Whitt)]

@Robert_Meier

Mike I’m curious, why wouldn’t it pass? Does a balcony require steps?

Where is the means of egress? That is not a balcony but it is a deck. Under the 2011NEC it would require a receptacle inside the footprint of the deck and an in-use cover.
The ICC building code requires a set of steps leaving from the deck

Even if the building was built under the 2011 NEC I would think that the lack of steps would be a bigger hazard than the lack of a receptacle

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@jwhitt

Where is the means of egress? That is not a balcony but it is a deck.

OK so what differentiates the two?

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI)]

@jwhitt

Where is the means of egress? That is not a balcony but it is a deck. Under the 2011NEC it would require a receptacle inside the footprint of the deck and an in-use cover.
The ICC building code requires a set of steps leaving from the deck

Means of egress is windows, not in photo.

The deck I posted is a minimum (3’x3’) requirement of new construction at any walkout openings above ground level in town it’s located at.

I questioned it (deck), thought is was insane. The only entrance is at front of home, or through attached garage. There were several similar in this new development.

[rmeier2 (Robert Meier)]

@ccurrins

Means of egress is windows, not in photo.

The deck I posted is a minimum (3’x3’) requirement of new construction at any walkout openings above ground level in town it’s located at.

I questioned it (deck), thought is was insane. The only entrance is at front of home, or through attached garage. There were several similar in this new development.

So from a building standpoint, and since it has no steps, this is considered a balcony?

[jwhitt (Joseph M. Whitt)]

@ccurrins

Means of egress is windows, not in photo.

The deck I posted is a minimum (3’x3’) requirement of new construction at any walkout openings above ground level in town it’s located at.

I questioned it (deck), thought is was insane. The only entrance is at front of home, or through attached garage. There were several similar in this new development.

It took me a while but I did find it in the IRC.

This deck meets the minimum code as long as the front door is 36 inches wide. As crazy as it sounds there only has to be one means of egress on a single family dwelling.

Sorry for my mistake

[Jim_Port]

I would like to see where you could install the receptacle on the balcony pictured that is only 3x3.