Originally Posted By: bob haller This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Had my home inspected and was told a GFCI is required on the sump pump used for a interior french drain. I THOUGHT the middle inspection agency fellow said it wasnt when reinspecting the breaker cabinet. I dont mind installing a GFCI, but did wonder about who is right?
I had the breaker cabinet reinspected after the home inspector wrote it up for faded signature and date on the sticker:(
Just curious for all you inspectors is that a common issue?
Also wonder one basement duplex receptable is not GFCI, this one is typically used for a freezer, but there isnt one there currently. the homeis vacant I tossed the old freezer oy was ancient.
Should this outlet be GFCI too?
the home is 50 years old and I am tryingn to do the right thing!
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Is the pump in an unfinished basement? Is the receptacle readily accessible. If both are yes you need it. If the pump is “hard wired” you don’t.
210.8(A) Dwelling Units. All 125-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere receptacles installed in the locations specified in (1) through (8 shall have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection for personnel.
(5) Unfinished basements ? for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception No. 1: Receptacles that are not readily accessible.
Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A)(8.
Originally Posted By: bob haller This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks very much, thats a easy fix.
Is the issue with the sump pump it might trip and lead to flooding? Freezer trip could lead to a major loss of food:( Neither would be obvious:(
BTW you agree with the middle department nspector:)
Originally Posted By: bob haller This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Sump pump is in the garage it plugs in…
Freezer outlet is in the basement. Its a semi finished laundry area. painted block walls, asphalt tile floor suspended tile cieling home is 50 years old, bath and kitchewn were all upgraded to gFCIs recently
Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
My advice is to let your conscience be your guide. There are no GFCI police who will knock down your door. Do be sure the pump is grounded properly, perhaps even adding a supplimental ground wire.
If this is for sale you might want to add one for the HI and let it be the next guy’s decision.
You have the answer about the freezer. Make sure the outlet is buried behind the freezer and it really should be a single but if you can't get to it ...
Originally Posted By: bob haller This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The house is for sale and I remodeled it extensively. Now the buyers home inspector found a list of troubles.
I a attempting to work thru the list so the next home inspector is happy. The first buyer backed out saying your home is in terrible shape wityh so much wrong:(
I have a variety of such issues and hope I can post them here in the appropiate forum so I can fix them if its at all possible. The trouble is I am a bit uncertain as to whats really right.
I appreciate the responses but fear my responses above might be for earlier answers and in the future will quote people.
So is a GFCI required for a in ground permanetely installed sump pump? It picks up water from the interior french drain and unless someone unbolts the cover theres no access for a owner. Or is a single receptable better?
Would most inspectors write up a middle department inspection sticker with faded but still visible date and name? name and date werent quite legebile.... I had middle department back out to re inspect.
If a freezer isnt currently there should I go ahead and install a GFCI?
Sunday is a open house and I want to clear these items before then.
I appreciate all responses and at this point am trying to just get the house sold.
BTW I settled my differences with the first home inspector, and at this point I just want my home to pass the NEXT inspection.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The sump pump in the garage, no you are not required to use a GFCI if you use a single outlet as it is one appliance, if you had two sump pumps a duplex would be OK.
2002 NEC wrote:
210.8(A)(2)Garages, and also accessory buildings that have a floor located at or below grade level not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and areas of similar use
Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connectedconnected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A) ( 8 )
Exception 2 does not require the outlet to be hard to access only that it is located at the space for the appliance it serves.
The freezer in the basement.
2002 NEC wrote:
210.8(A)(5) Unfinished basements ? for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception No. 1: Receptacles that are not readily accessible.
Exception No. 2: A single receptacle or a duplex receptacle for two appliances located within dedicated space for each appliance that, in normal use, is not easily moved from one place to another and that is cord-and-plug connected in accordance with 400.7(A)(6), (A)(7), or (A) ( 8 ).
Here take you pick, make the outlet not readily accessible and meet Exception No. 1
OR
Put in a single receptacle at the space for the freezer and meet Exception No. 2.
What if the freezer is not there?
Good question and if you get an NEC answer let me know. 
Originally Posted By: bob haller This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The box at the freezer location is jammed, that is too small for a GFCI, its probably easiet to change it from a duplex to a single.
I want to do whats RIGHT! I have sunk about $15,000 in this house whats another grand?
REALLY GLAD I had the interior french drain installed this summer we are at least 14 inches over the notrmal amount of rain  for pittsburgh
I need to seal my asphalt driveway but its been too wet the entire summer..
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
People need to realize that a singular receptacle is not a blanket exception for GFCI’s. Onlt in unfinished basements and garages do they apply. If, for example, the sump pump was in a crawl space, the GFCI would be required, singular or not.
Originally Posted By: bob haller This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Is the issue it MIGHT trip and no one would be aware?
If thats the case I might juast install it anyway, the most that will happen is a little floor water seepage. usually.... thats why I had the french drain installed in the first place
Of course this year were 14 inches over average for rain, I honestly dont know what would happen if the GFCI tripped and no one knew about it. perhaps they could put a dim light night permanetely on the second GFCI receptable?
Originally Posted By: Ryan Jackson This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Mike Parks wrote:
Ryan
Good one on the crawl space. I did not know that.
PS Would you enforce It? If it was in the joist space would it be in the crawl space?
Mike P.
Hi Mike, and thanks for the compliment. Unfortunatley for some, yes, I would require it. 90.4 allows me to waive some requirements when equal safety is provided, but I can see to equal to GFCI protection. 
Originally Posted By: bob haller This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thanks Dan. My business has me working double shifts this week, booming business with the start of school. I fix laminating machines, that put plastic on paper that nearly every school uses. trouble is they ALL break, after summer vacation teachers forget how to use them:(
So I decided to do some research while I had no time to do the work. Tomorrow saturday the GFCIs go in, the house will be on a realtor tv show sunday, with a open house. I am trying to get some of these issues fixed before the open house.
I appreciate the friendly helpful responses and hope the next home inspector is more like you folks. I just want a nice clean house sale with a happy buyer who will get a quality home that is 50 years old.
I really wanted to avoid installing GFCIs only to be told by the next inspector this outlet should be a standard one...... that would be sad...
Originally Posted By: dbozek This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The answer is no. Remember the sump pump is a motor and any motor operated circuit can trip a gfci, especially as the motor ages. Putting a gfci on a sump pump circuit can be disasterous. The proper way to provide power to a sump pump is with a dedicated circuit and a single receptacle.
If a refrigerator outlet was 4 feet from a sink.....would gfci protection be required for that outlet as well? Again no purely because of the refrigerator itself which could cause the gfci to trip.
-- You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves. Abraham Lincoln
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
dbozek wrote:
Remember the sump pump is a motor and any motor operated circuit can trip a gfci, especially as the motor ages. Putting a gfci on a sump pump circuit can be disasterous.
Dennis that is strictly an opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. 
I feel very differently, the sump pump in my cellar is on a GFCI and has been for 2 or 3 years. It operates 3 or 4 times an hour during a rain storm. It has never tripped and if it does I will consider that a sign that the motor is about to die.
I also work on large construction sites that all receptacles are GFCI protected even with the largest drawing motorized tools, pipe threaders chop saws etc. the GFCIs do not trip unless a tool or cord is faulty.
dbozek wrote:
If a refrigerator outlet was 4 feet from a sink.....would gfci protection be required for that outlet as well? Again no purely because of the refrigerator itself which could cause the gfci to trip.
If that outlet is over the counter, not behind the refrigerator it would have to be on a GFCI.
An interesting point is that ALLcommercial kitchen 15 and 20 amp 120 volt outlets MUST be GFCI protected. That includes refrigerators, freezers, mixers etc. There are no exceptions.
All that said I do agree with Dennis that a sump pump in a basement is not required to be on a GFCI. (Yet )