Well if you think it’s fine to have bare conductors touching the metal enclosure… I think it’s incorrect. They should be at least wire nutted. What if they became energized?
Where exactly in your photos can this be seen?
So does this mean that we don’t need to call it out anymore?
This one from today.
(I know there are other issues going on, but my question is in regards to the distribution panel at the left of the disconnect, and also the one inside the home being fed by 3 conductors)
As you’ve stated there are several other issues. In this scenario I don’t see how this could be the EM disconnect even if it had the required labeling. Let’s say that it was the EM disconnect and properly labelled. The panels would then contain the service disconnects. When there is more than one service disconnect then they need to be grouped at the same location which is not possible with one on the opposite side of the wall.
So this is now setup with the 150 amp breaker being the service disconnect and the two panels are sub-panels and need to wired accordingly. Looks like the small panel on the outside was added at a later time with the obvious violations.
I guess this was a bad example. Lets say the exterior subpanel was not there. Would you then say there is no issue, as long as it had labeling?
Yes no issue. As long as it’s properly labeled you can have 3-wires between the EM disconnect and the service panel. Here some photo’s of the EM disconnect, not service equipment.
Thanks for that information Robert @rmeier2 , I learned something new today.
Its funny to think about this code change. Normally, we are saying “well, that was done before the code change, so its ok, until they remodel, they need to bring it up to code”
In this situation, its the opposite. Here we have what was a violation when the home was built, and now we are saying its ok. haha
That’s correct. It can down to the number of conductors between the EM disconnect and what it says on the label, The labeling is the key to understanding how the system was installed. It can definitely be confusing.
In the photos I posted this was from a service change. The original GEC’s terminated at the interior panel where the original service disconnect was located. Instead of having to irreversibly splice the GEC’s and move them to the exterior breaker it was easier to make the interior panel the service panel which contains the 200 amp service disconnect and land the existing GEC’s there.
Robert, the other day I was on an inspection with an electrician present. Kind of similar setup of what Daniel is describing, but there was always a disconnect outside. I asked the electrician if now labelling the exterior service disconnect as an “EM” disconnect will this correct the wrong double bond. His response was that the double bond (outside and inside) was always acceptable because it was less than 10’ from the meter. I feel that was never correct if I have understood previous lessons from you. Is this the case?
I don’t know where he got this 10’ rule but it doesn’t exist in the NEC.
The two basic code compliant setups are EM Disconnect/Not Service Equipment on the outside with the neutral bonded and 3-wires to the panel which also has the neutral bonded. Or EM Disconnect/Service disconnect on the outside with the neutral bonded and 4-wires to the panel without the neutral bonded.
There are approximately 3,000 electrical utility companies in the US. They each have their own electrical service requirements. You didn’t say where the job is located or which electrical utility company provides service to the property so anyone who gives you an answer is merely guessing.
As was stated in another post, this is now the electrical code to have an emergency disconnect outside of all buildings that an electrical service enters. The emergency disconnect SHALL be marked as such. I was a code enforcement officer for several years and failed more than one electrical inspection for not having it labeled.
It is up to the AHJ whether this can also serve as the main disconnect, but that is often allowed on single family homes.
This disconnect is intended for emergency responders, such as firefighters. Can you imagine responding to a fire, spraying water onto an improperly bonded house and having the electricity run down the stream of water? Or being in a building where you chop your axe through a wall with wiring that’s still live?
Oh, the word “shall”, when it appears in building codes, means “You have to do it. No ifs, ands, or buts.”
It does not apply to all buildings it applies to one and two family dwellings units only.