Few electrical questions

[afaghih (Amir Faghih, TREC 4177)]

I always seem to get confused as to when electrical breaker box needs to be grounded , bonded or both. any explanation would be appreciated
when main panel should be bonded or grounded or both. When sub panel should be bonded or grounded or both.
What about older wiring system, when there are no bonding?
Also, what is the latest ragarding GFCI. Area ll plugs in garage, including the one for garage door opener must be GFCI?
Lastly: how do I know if recess lights should not have insulation over it in attic. Is there an easy way to determine that, other than reading the label. What if the home owner has CFL light bulbs in the light fixture and so they will not get as hot?
Thanks

[jpope (Jeffrey Pope, CMI, CHI, CPI, ICC)]

It’s important to understand the difference between grounding and bonding.

Any metallic enclosure (j-box, panel, conduit, outlet-box, etc.) is required to be bonded to the grounding electrode system of the residence. This can be established in several ways. For instance, the equipment grounding conductor(s) can be directly attached to the enclosure with proper terminals or bonding can occur through proper connections made with metallic conduit. When this is done properly, all necessary components will be grounded.

I have attached a sheet that covers GFCI requirements up to 2008. I have a more current one on my other computer, but this is a good start.

[ccurrins (Christopher Currins, CMI)]

National Electrical Code (NEC) Grounding Requirements](http://www.psihq.com/iread/strpgrnd.htm)

Both the neutral and equipment-grounding conductor is bonded together at a single point via a bonding jumper. (Most often this is the main disconnect or the neutral/ground service entrance bonding buss bar.)

This point is also bonded to Earth via the grounding electrode conductor that bonds the system to the grounding electrode system.

The panel that houses the bonding jumper (or bonding buss bar) is called the main panel (main distribution panel) or can be the service entrance main disconnect.

All subsequent panels and disconnects fed from this point are referred to as sub-panels, distribution panels or disconnects.

[belliott (Bob Elliott, 450.0002662)]

To answer the can light question.
No slots in the casing mean it is Okay to blow insulation over them.

[badair (Barry Adair, EIFSTX#39)]

@afaghih

I always seem to get confused as to when electrical breaker box needs to be grounded , bonded or both. any explanation would be appreciated
when main panel should be bonded or grounded or both. When sub panel should be bonded or grounded or both.
What about older wiring system, when there are no bonding?
Also, what is the latest ragarding GFCI. Area ll plugs in garage, including the one for garage door opener must be GFCI?
Lastly: how do I know if recess lights should not have insulation over it in attic. Is there an easy way to determine that, other than reading the label. What if the home owner has CFL light bulbs in the light fixture and so they will not get as hot?
Thanks

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/few-electrical-questions-65988/

are you yanking our chain?

is TREC aware of your confusion?

licensed since the 90s and a sponsor

if not how much have you missed and how many clients have been ripped off due to lack of electrical knowledge

if not immediate electrical continuing ed advised before you kill someone

[badair (Barry Adair, EIFSTX#39)]

@afaghih

I always seem to get confused as to when electrical breaker box needs to be grounded , bonded or both. any explanation would be appreciated
when main panel should be bonded or grounded or both. When sub panel should be bonded or grounded or both.
What about older wiring system, when there are no bonding?
Also, what is the latest ragarding GFCI. Area ll plugs in garage, including the one for garage door opener must be GFCI?
Lastly: how do I know if recess lights should not have insulation over it in attic. Is there an easy way to determine that, other than reading the label. What if the home owner has CFL light bulbs in the light fixture and so they will not get as hot?
Thanks

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/few-electrical-questions-65988/

are you yanking our chain?

is TREC aware of your confusion?

licensed since the 90s and a sponsor

if not how much have you missed and how many clients have been ripped off due to lack of electrical knowledge

if not immediate electrical continuing ed advised before you kill someone

[badair (Barry Adair, EIFSTX#39)]

@afaghih

I always seem to get confused as to when electrical breaker box needs to be grounded , bonded or both. any explanation would be appreciated
when main panel should be bonded or grounded or both. When sub panel should be bonded or grounded or both.
What about older wiring system, when there are no bonding?
Also, what is the latest ragarding GFCI. Area ll plugs in garage, including the one for garage door opener must be GFCI?
Lastly: how do I know if recess lights should not have insulation over it in attic. Is there an easy way to determine that, other than reading the label. What if the home owner has CFL light bulbs in the light fixture and so they will not get as hot?
Thanks

http://www.nachi.org/forum/f19/few-electrical-questions-65988/

Amir Faghih are you yanking our chain?

is TREC aware of your confusion?

licensed since the 90s and a sponsor

if not how much have you missed and how many clients have been ripped off due to lack of electrical knowledge

if not immediate electrical continuing ed is advised

[wwilson3 (Wayne Wilson, TN 439)]

Thanks Jeffrey for the chart. that will come in handy around here.
BTW I thought the MB was for any question to be answered seems lately someone always jumps on someone for some reason , Are HI on some kind of life cycle? lol
Reasonable question , great responses .

[escanlan (Emmanuel Scanlan, TREC# 7593)]

@wwilson3

Thanks Jeffrey for the chart. that will come in handy around here.
BTW I thought the MB was for any question to be answered seems lately someone always jumps on someone for some reason , Are HI on some kind of life cycle? lol
Reasonable question , great responses .

From the State of Texas mandated SOP:

§535.229. Standards of Practice: Minimum Inspection Requirements for Electrical Systems.

(a) Service entrance and panels. The inspector shall report as Deficient:
(2) the lack of a grounding electrode system;
(3) the lack of a grounding electrode conductor;
(4) the lack of a secure connection to the grounding electrode system;
(6) electrical cabinets, gutters, meter cans, and panel boards that:
(E) are not bonded and grounded;

(c) Branch circuits, connected devices, and fixtures. The inspector shall:
(3) report as Deficient:
(A) the lack of ground‐fault circuit interrupter protection in all:
(i) bathroom receptacles;
(ii) garage receptacles;
(iii) outdoor receptacles;
(iv) crawl space receptacles;
(v) unfinished basement receptacles;
(vi) kitchen countertop receptacles; and
(vii) laundry, utility, and wet bar sink receptacles located within 6 feet of the outside edge of a laundry, utility, or wet bar sink; and

Part of the answers are directly in the Texas mandated SOP. The remaining topics are taught in initial licensing classes and are reviewed in most any comprehensive electrical CEU class offered for license renewal. The answers to the questions are also freely available on the internet for the searching. Are Barry’s questions and concerns really unwarranted?

[wwilson3 (Wayne Wilson, TN 439)]

No not really, but if there is a question and if someone wants to answer it whats the problem ?. if you think it is stupid move on and ignore it. It is getting to a point lately everyone is hesitating to ask anything on here. Personally if i have a questions it could be to get get refreshed on something or to see if something has been updated. this MB is a source of great information . (Pdf files like Jeff added.) can be saved and sent to someone that asks that question . I have a crap load of pdfs from everyone that posts , Marcel , Jeffery, Barry an many others have posted great material If this question was not asked we may not have not had a opportunity of receiving the file .
I am also guilty of snapping a response .
I think we all can be more understanding On HI questions . Now on the other threads not pertaining to HI go at it.
My Answer to you it may be simple question , But it got information out to all.
My theory is there is no stupid questions , If you can not learn something new everyday it has been a wasted day .
I was not criticizing Barry because he is a valuable source of information, I was just pointing out we all have our own weaknesses and strengths. Questions with answers are invaluable. No education courses or SOP’s can replace experience. this message board has some of the best experienced people around. Together we become stronger.

[escanlan (Emmanuel Scanlan, TREC# 7593)]

@belliott

To answer the can light question.
No slots in the casing mean it is Okay to blow insulation over them.

Bob,

Air tight non IC rated can lights

http://www.lightfixtureindustries.com/mm5/Products_Recessed-Cans_Trims_6-inch_trims-8-inch-OD.pdf

http://www.lightfixtureindustries.com/mm5/Products_Indoor-Light-Fixtures_Recessd-Can_6-inch_IC_11CNS6N.pdf

More without slots.

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/general/jesco-rs3000b-3in-line-voltage-nonic-housing-new-construction-recessed-can-light_g618292.html?linkloc=searchProductItemsName

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/general/wac-lighting-hr-302e-4in-non-ic-new-construction-housing-integral-electronic-transformer-recessed-can-light-black_g183972.html?linkloc=searchProductItemsName

http://www.lightinguniverse.com/general/royal-pacific-8313h-3in-nonic-low-voltage-housing-recessed-can-light_g317545.html?linkloc=searchProductItemsName

Since you don’t know what the builder, homeowner, installer is going to put in at the attic level you must be careful.

[rcooke (Roy D. Cooke, Sr)]

@wwilson3

No not really, but if there is a question and if someone wants to answer it whats the problem ?. if you think it is stupid move on and ignore it. It is getting to a point lately everyone is hesitating to ask anything on here. Personally if i have a questions it could be to get get refreshed on something or to see if something has been updated. this MB is a source of great information . (Pdf files like Jeff added.) can be saved and sent to someone that asks that question . I have a crap load of pdfs from everyone that posts , Marcel , Jeffery, Barry an many others have posted great material If this question was not asked we may not have not had a opportunity of receiving the file .
I am also guilty of snapping a response .
I think we all can be more understanding On HI questions . Now on the other threads not pertaining to HI go at it.
My Answer to you it may be simple question , But it got information out to all.
My theory is there is no stupid questions , If you can not learn something new everyday it has been a wasted day .
I was not criticizing Barry because he is a valuable source of information, I was just pointing out we all have our own weaknesses and strengths. Questions with answers are invaluable. No education courses or SOP’s can replace experience. this message board has some of the best experienced people around. Together we become stronger.

Thanks Wayne I wish more would read your post again and practice more of what you said .

---

I see so many good Inspectors who have helped many over the years seldom post and many no longer post.
I wonder why some just look for Homies to attack .
They seem to use our great forum and hurt our industry big time .

Well said and we all should try to improve our selves .

[jkeilson (James Keilson, CMI, Certified Master Inspector)]

@badair

Few electrical questions - Electrical Inspections - InterNACHI®️ Forum

Amir Faghih are you yanking our chain?

is TREC aware of your confusion?

licensed since the 90s and a sponsor

if not how much have you missed and how many clients have been ripped off due to lack of electrical knowledge

if not immediate electrical continuing ed is advised

Barry, don’t hold back your true feelings…hahaha…I am with you bro,

Jim

[Jim_Port]

While no one should be afraid to ask questions about situations they have never come across or need further clarification for someone with over 10 years of experience to be asking these basic types of questions seems ridiculous. I agree with Barry.

If I was a HO that paid for an inspection by someone that appears to lack the required knowledge I would be less than happy.

[badair (Barry Adair, EIFSTX#39)]

nice

[mbrown5 (Mark L. Brown, TREC# 9762)]

Thanks again Jeffrey for the chart. I have only been performing HI for about 5 years. It is good to know the timing of some of the changes. This will help.

[mbrown5 (Mark L. Brown, TREC# 9762)]

Thanks again Jeffrey for the chart. I have only been performing HI for about 5 years. It is good to know the timing of some of the changes. This will help.

[dduffy (Dale Duffy)]

For any one interested in keeping up with new/old requirements, and learning anything regarding electricity, I urge you to visit Mike Holt, and subscribe to his daily newsletters, there is a wealth of information in each newsletter regarding every aspect of both residential and commercial electrical.

His entire website is just loaded with the most comprehensive information available, including classes, tests, quiz’s.

If you need expert advise post on Mikes forum, if you search his forum, there really isn’t a topic in any aspect of electricity which isn’t covered thoroughly.

Use the search option if you don’t want to post. Grounding and Bonding can be confusing if you don’t know/understand why the requirements are necessary for a safe electrical system.

There is also a wealth of information available online, but posting here is good for others to help, but to learn the most without interruption, look at what is already been hashed over thousands of time.

[mparker1 (Michael Parker, NYS Lic. 16000046690)]

@dduffy

For any one interested in keeping up with new/old requirements, and learning anything regarding electricity, I urge you to visit Mike Holt, and subscribe to his daily newsletters, there is a wealth of information in each newsletter regarding every aspect of both residential and commercial electrical.

His entire website is just loaded with the most comprehensive information available, including classes, tests, quiz’s.

If you need expert advise post on Mikes forum, if you search his forum, there really isn’t a topic in any aspect of electricity which isn’t covered thoroughly.

Use the search option if you don’t want to post. Grounding and Bonding can be confusing if you don’t know/understand why the requirements are necessary for a safe electrical system.

There is also a wealth of information available online, but posting here is good for others to help, but to learn the most without interruption, look at what is already been hashed over thousands of time.

Thanks Dale. Great info