Any comments about the Flir one pro? Trying to decide which to buy. C2 or one pro
Take real lessons (Level I, Building Science, Level II, etc.,) and then you will not buy either.
I have the C3. The Wi-Fi and msx are awesome and really handy!
Why do you feel that? For basic diagnostics of temp differentials at limited distance, the optics in either should offer suitable results. I question the long term durability of lightning connector but it does allow you seamlessly integrate IR into your library. Flir has put their name and reputation to the product you have to respect they are applying technology to support production and marketing of compact products. Much like there is limited need to carry a separate compact camera on inspections anymore. Technology is what it is,electronics and especially communication have gotten smaller and smaller.
Again, not debating your position, more curious as to the reasoning, possibly from first hand experience.
Joseph- Flir made this camera for “Personal-Recrreational” use not building inspection. It is a tool to teach the public what IR is about, not to inspecting Power Plants.
I was teaching clinics for Flir when the Flir One came out. They were giving them away free with the deluxe package for their conventions to get a camera in the hands of all attendees. During my presentation, I was answering a question for one of these free camera owners concerning livestock inspection. When I was done, the #1 Lvl III trainer for Flir Canada interrupted my clinic to explain to all the limitations of this camera and how it was not the tool of choice when the lives of livestock were in the balance.
Also at the same clinic, I was at the sales reps table looking at the Flir One and found a huge air duct leak with a T460 and couldn’t even see anything with the Flir One. When asked, the sales rep just told me that the T460 is the tool I needed if that is what I was going to do that work. Well, I already have one…
An awful lot of inspectors here wont believe me if I said the sun was out on a clear day. Maybe you can make your own opinion based on the actions of others, rather than the just the trained Thermographers here who happen to do Home Inspections/Building Science work.
For basic diagnostics of temp differentials at limited distance,
Do you know that the ‘temp differentials’ become exponentially wrong the more a thermal camera is improperly tuned? In Thermography, we call this “Apparent Temperature”. This means the temp differential is “Not Corrected”. So when you call out an HVAC system based on Temp Differentials using the Industry Standard Delta-T, your 99.999% Wrong to start. The .001% is Las Vegas odds.
If your going to forgo Delta-T’s and stick with Quantitative IR, stating there is a ‘Blue Blob’ in the living room ceiling under the HVAC unit that may be air or water issues (or just something else) you’ll be fine. Personally, I have never put such a lack of credible information in one of my Inspection Reports.
They also have put their Name and Reputation on a massive amount of training in using these devices.
You can not base their name over the training and listed product data sheets radially posted with all of their equipment. When you do not understand what your reading concerning (Thermal pixel size, Thermal sensitivity, HFOV / VFOV) and how Frame rate, Focus, Measurement correction, and Accuracy restricts your ability to do your job in the Building Science applications, how can you make an informed decision? You can’t just rely on the Flir reputation.
Do you realize the Accuracy of the Flir One which is ±3°C (5.4°F) or ±5% is beyond what is required to identify moisture in a wall? The common (rule of thumb) of moisture in a wall is <4°F. Just how do we overcome this with a camera error range of 10.8°F? With a WAG?
Focus (Fixed): do you know how much being out of focus affects the Quantative data provided in the camera? A Lot!
Emissivity correction: Matte, Semi-Matte, Semi-Glossy, Glossy
There are only four available settings to adjust Emissivity (which is ‘critical’ in determining Delta-T by the way). Can you determine the differance between Matte, Semi-Matte or Semi-Glossy, Glossy ? I can’t.
Reflected apparent temperature (22°C / 72°F)
T-Reflect is the next critical adjustment for Temperature and Delta-T correction. It’s 'fixed at 72*F. Is it always 72F where you are using your camera?
This is what Larry “Knows”, but didn’t say directly! I know, because we sat next to each other in Class…
Hope this helps because it is as first hand as you will ever get.
Thanks for detailed response. FWIW, maybe the question as to what is suitable TI should be broken down into what is the intended use. And maybe that comes with the different Levels of Certification? For something as simple as ID’ing moisture in walls (prior to breaking out a moisture meter to confirm) a Flir C2 may be sufficient. Flir ProOne I believe has the same optics? I’m not advocating to use either one or any less expensive Thermal Imager for that matter, Only asking, is it suitable for the intended purpose.
My limited real life experience with using Thermal Imaging has been with a Scott handheld (and a rather expensive device at that if we want to talk $$$) as a volunteer with the fire company. Am I “trained” and “certified”, no. Can I use one and ID hot spots , yes.
I think it comes down to what is the intended purpose and what level device is needed for that purpose.
Had a chance to read your complete response a little better back at my desk and fully understand your position and the level of detail you provided. And your credentials in regards to Thermography are impressive [ ITC Level III Thermographer Cert#1958 Building Science Thermographer Cert#33784 HVAC Certification EPA Cert#2046620 BPI# 5015804 ].
Maybe, based on your statement “If your going to forgo Delta-T’s and stick with Quantitative IR, stating there is a ‘Blue Blob’ in the living room ceiling under the HVAC unit that may be air or water issues (or just something else) you’ll be fine” , you would offer some suggestions / product reviews of suitable devices for the basic intended purpose of using IR to perform initial analysis in a home inspection as it relates to the most basic of applications (ie. moisture detection).
Again, David, thanks for the input.
Here’s a great review that will help give you perspective.
I don’t think the F1 Pro or the C3 are good choices for home inspection. They are throw-away devices (once the battery goes, there’s no way to replace it), and the limited resolution limits their overall accuracy.
I use my E8 on and off a lot during the course of inspection, so the F1 would be quite a hassle. Better of the two is the C3, IMO, but that’s a lot of money to pay for something with a one-year warranty that could be an expensive paperweight when the battery goes out.
I thought that the one pro worked off phone battery. Any idea how long that battery is good for?
Christopher, it would depend on which battery and how long one would be using the IR. IMHO
That subject has been Beat to Death Around Here and only raises arguments amongst cheap camera owners who want to justify their purchase and use of inferior equipment for the particular application it was not intended for.
You see a lot of comments about MSX in cheap cameras. If it wasn’t for this technology you would be practically blind if you turned it off and had to analyze just the IR. MSX turns and IR scan into a digital photograph overlay. When evaluating these cameras, if you turn off the MSX and try to analyze solely with the IR scan, but can’t, the camera is worthless.
" Resolution " seems to be the only thing that people compare in thermal cameras. In actuality, it is the least accurate specification you can use. It is simply a pixel count that affects the height and width of the scan on a computer. The largest deficit of a thermal imager is its Optics. That’s where the money comes in. A lens for myFlir T640 cost more than most of the cameras you guys are considering too expensive for home inspection.
Generally speaking, the more resolution your camera has the better the camera is all around, when comparing between a single manufacturers different models. However this gets thrown out the window when you get a Chinese knockoff with the same resolution pixel count for half the price. The words to focus on is “spatial resolution”. Ironically this data is never published with these cameras.
Do not misconstrue this post to mean that more is always better, and you must have the biggest and best to do your job. Those of us with several cameras to choose from do not always choose the biggest and best to do every job we set out to accomplish. Rather it is imperative that you must understand your capabilities and limitations of your equipment and ability to perform all intended thermal imaging tasks. This is why you were told to get training before you buy equipment. If you purchased a race car based upon it’s pretty colors and fancy wheels, you’re not going to win the race. The engine is what gets you across the finish line.
I would not have anything less than a E4 or E8.
First of all, Christopher, let’s begin at the beginning by awakening to the reality that “ building science” is a pseudo-scientific justification for promoting synthetic building materials made from industrial waste and recycled domestic garbage and, not surprisingly, has been the cause of the very problems it later seeks to remedy by charging big bucks to detect and remedy its own malfeasance. It’s analogous to Soylent Green for human habitation going on behind our backs for decades on an enormous scale.
What’s “green” about “green building practices” is the color occupants’ skin turns from living and working in hermetically sealed, off-gassing and moldy coffins and, more to the point here, “green” is the color of money pouring into newly minted “experts” and ambulance chasers’ bank accounts.
How clever our masters have been, too—encapsulating, or sugar coating, these Soylent Green building products within a framework of kitschy nostalgia and folksy music on shows like This Old House. Funny thing, too, how these added technical services arise as a function of product development that may or may not correlate with actual need. Have you been around for a while? Years ago the leading edge of doing “home inspections-by-gadget” was charging extra to check for stray EMF from high-tension power lines using what looked like a recycled prop from an old Flash Gordon movie.
I hope my comment as I reread it comes across as ironic and not serious!
The Flir One is a toy. Notice, even Flir only advertises it as a way to take cool looking photos. If you take a photo with a FLIR 1 and try to use it to show something in a house, you will be laughed at. Or worse, you’ll get sued for coming to false conclusions.
I have a C3 as a back up to my bigger, more expensive T420. And I end up using the C3 more often now. But only because I’ve been trained and certified on how to use IR so I fully understand the limitations. .
I am a newer inspector and would like to get trained and get a IR camera that does not break the bank. I have read a lot of your comments and my main goal is to be able to scan the walls and ceilings tosee if there might be any hidden moisture issues that cannot been seen by the naked eye. If I find a “possible moisture spot” that I cannot see with my eyes, I would follow up with a moisture meter to confirm the there is moisture there. I would like to find training for using an IR Camera and how to calibrate it and so forth (if someone that has is an expert, if they could recommend some training for beginners) and I would also like a recommendation for a decent/good camera for under a $1000, that the battery could be replaced. $1000 dollars is not the max if its within reason, some of the cameras that have been posted on this thread are outside of my reach now, since I am a new inspector and I am trying to get started.
Any help would be greatly appreciate it.
The least you should go is a Flir E4.
Buy a used camera.
There are plenty of high-end cameras out there without unnecessary bells and whistles that you can acquire within your price range.
What is it that you may suggest we use that may be of a better choice?
Talk to Roy why he likes the E4.
I know of several Flir 320x240 cameras used for under $1k.
When I started out there were not a lot of cameras to pick from and a 320x240 camera was $$$$$. Today, I wouldn’t do any building inspection with anything under that.
The E4 was one of the first small cameras that came in with 320x240 that I remember. I was satisfied with it when I got to play with one at Flir Inframation.
Remember: the resolution is not the key to a good camera. It just happens that most cameras with higher resolution have better specs all around as a rule.