Originally Posted By: jruddy This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Are all FPE panels a problem or just certain ones. I did an inspection on an older house and came across an FPE panel with an “Issue number of 7798”, if that means anything.
I know I've read where the FPE's have a tendency to trip breakers more so than others but are they a real hazard and should we be recommending that they be replaced?
Originally Posted By: wwarner This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
Another even greater concern is that older breakers - of any brand- do not become more reliable with age. The internal components can become corroded or distorted, and the springs, hinges, and levers inside the breaker might not operate as designed after sufficient passage of time. Most breaker manufacturers guarantee their products for only a year, and for valuation purposes breakers are considered fully depreciated after 15 years.
How many sparkys and inspectors call this?
My Sq D equipment is 30 years old.
Does this mean we should recommend changing out the breakers every 15 as we do a furnace filter every month?
Thoughts????
Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Well if they were to replace all the FPE breakers with the new ones (available only in Canada for what I know), then the panels would become reliable again. As far as I understand, they have completely fixed the FPE breakers as of 1997. The new ones that either have a small hole in the handle, or have a flat handle, are perfectly reliable.
95% of new houses built here get those panels, including my parent's house, and they do trip properly.
My uncle's house I am a little worried about though, as it has 1996 model FPE breakers without the small hole in the handles.
But I seriously wonder why the US doesn't just allow them to be replaced with the new ones. They are being made and any testing laboratory and agency could verify that the new ones actually work. They have the same bus connectors and so they would fit compatibly.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
The U.S. does not “disallow” them. There is no law or code that says they must be replaced.
The breaker failure rate was only one of the problems. Their method of contact is also a significant defect. The Stab-Loc design made it easy to bend or break the contacts while inserting the breakers.
I have, on many occasion, had these breakers fall out while removing the dead front cover because of their poor design. Often, I've seen where the breaker was never snapped in completely and the contact was arcing on the bus.
The poor design in combination with the high failure rate is why FPE has such a bad rap. Replacement parts are readily available.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeff, forgive me for jumping to conclusions. I was under the impression that FPE breakers lost their UL listing and thus cannot be used in new construction in the US.
Anyways, the bus problem is definately true. I know even in the newest FPE panels you can wiggle the breakers around pretty good even with the cover on. However, it must be generally OK.
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joey D'Adamo wrote:
I was under the impression that FPE breakers lost their UL listing and thus cannot be used in new construction in the US.
I know nothing about FPE losing their UL listing. Maybe one of our resident sparkies can enlighten us on this.
As far as I am aware however, FPE panels and/or components are no longer in production although replacement parts are available through other manufacturers.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
hmm i thought they did but I must be mistaken. Although I do know one thing, they are very much still in production by Schneider Electric, and sold under the name Federal Pioneer in Canada. They are extremely popular in new construction here in Calgary, enough to the point that i’ve never seen a new house with anything except them in a very long time. Not sure about the rest of Canada, but I know my gf’s dad (in British Columbia) is an EC and he’s replacing the SqD panel in his house with a FPE.
Update: According to this they did lose their listing. Not sure for how long though.
Originally Posted By: bbadger This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
jpope wrote:
I know nothing about FPE losing their UL listing. Maybe one of our resident sparkies can enlighten us on this.
Well I had always heard they had lost their listing (at least the FPE Stab-loc type) but I can not say I say that I saw it in writing only word of mouth.
In my work I do not come across FPE panels very often, although the house I grew up in had one.
A thread just started at ECN about FPE Falsifying the UL listing!
IMO at this point at least in my area the word of mouth is just to much for the name FPE to recover from. No matter what changes and improvements are made the letters FPE stand for any thing but quality.
FPE
Fire Prone Equipment
F***ing Poor Equipment
Are just a couple of the terms I have heard used.
As I said I do not often run into the stab locs at my work however we are currently putting a price together to replace about 150 FPE Stab Loc panels in a Boston Condo building.
I only wish we where doing the job a while ago, the condos (some anyway) look over Fenway Park. 
Bob
-- Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
