Garage 2x4 support

[earmendariz (Erik Armendariz CMI®)]

@bcawhern1

Was the garage attached to the home at one of the gable ends?

The gable ends look like they may have openings to the attic.

Yes indeed, the garage was attached, but only to an added room that was not original to the structure. The wall had been recently painted and sealed, albeit poorly, as the other pictures show

[msenty (Michael Senty)]

@jkeresztury

Someone asked if collar ties are attached to wall-top plates- collar ties don’t attach to wall-top plates, they are in the upper 3rd of roof - attached between rafters under ridge. This roof frame doesn’t appear to have any collar ties as needed.

Collar tie was the wrong term for me to use. It should have been bottom cord or simply top wall plate ties. This style roof construction is very common in hand framed rafter buildings. I disagree, no need for a collar tie if the rafter is properly sized. Those actually look like 2x6 rafters. Outward thrust of the wall top plate and ridge sag are the issues to look for and report.

[ruecker (Ryan Uecker)]

@earmendariz

Yes indeed, the garage was attached, but only to an added room that was not original to the structure…

Just as an FYI, I wouldn’t distinguish between an original part of the structure and an addition when it comes to the garage fire separation. Attached is attached, in my opinion.

[lkage (Larry Kage, CMI)]

@lkage

@ryoung7

You mentioned nothing about ballooning outer frame.

This may be where he mentioned it:

@earmendariz

Deflection could be seen on the roof at the ridge, right below this area. No movement at the sidewall. And I did not get a look at the sidewall top plate. Seeing the deflection made me a little more nervous about the garage rafters.

[quote="ROBERT YOUNG, CMI, post:16, topic:239442, username:ryoung7”]
No movement at the sidewall.
[/quote]

Yeah, the mention is NOT nothing. LOL!

[rcloyd (Russell Cloyd, KY LIC #166164, IN LIC#HI02300068)]

Looks like there may have been a fire and subsequent amatuer repairs (sealer painted over charred wood). If the garage was attached to the house I would refer to a qualified contractor for further evaluation. If it was not attached to the house, i would not comment on it at all per the SOP.

[jkeresztury (Joseph Keresztury, CMI TREC License # 10420)]

Garage 2x4 support

Collar tie was the wrong term for me to use. It should have been bottom cord or simply top wall plate ties. This style roof construction is very common in hand framed rafter buildings. I disagree, no need for a collar tie if the rafter is properly sized. Those actually look like 2x6 rafters. Outward thrust of the wall top plate and ridge sag are the issues to look for and report.

Michael, You say no need for collar ties if rafter size is correct. Rafter size has nothing to do with collar ties. Collar ties are needed to prevent uplift and separation and yes they are required / needed. They might not have been required in the 60’s or whenever this home was built, but their is a reason why they are now required as progress w/ Construction Science has determined. What you refer to- saying you should have called a bottom chord or top plate tie, are actually at subject property- ceiling joists and in this case if properly attached to rafters, the joists can also serve as the required rafter ties to help with wall spread and roof sag. Your calling ceiling frame a bottom chord is terminology for the ceiling frame component of an engineered truss which you acknowledge that this is not, it’s a stick frame. As far as collar tie requirement- IRC R802.3.1 is the IRC requirement location.