GFCI in kitchen

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1

Originally Posted By: dsutrina
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I’m looking for clarification. I understood GFCI outlets were required within 3 feet of kitchen sink, but recently was lead to understand the rule is 6 feet. Which is correct?


Thanks


dsutrina

2

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
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From a reliable source on the internet: (I think it was Doug Hansen or someone of similar stature. Just can’t remember which.)



FYI: The following dates indicate when nationally accepted minimum safety standards required GFCI protection. The local minimum safety standards may have adopted this protection at an earlier or later date.

DATES GFCI REQUIRMENTS WERE ESTABLISHED:
1971 Receptacles within 15 feet of pool walls
1971 All equipment used with storable swimming pools
1973 All outdoor receptacles
1974 Construction Sites
1975 Bathrooms, 120-volt pool lights, and fountain equipment
1978 Garages, spas, and hydromassage tubs
1978 Outdoor receptacles above 6ft.6in. grade access exempted
1984 Replacement of non-grounding receptacles with no grounding conductor allowed
1984 Pool cover motors
1984 Distance of GFCI protection extended to 20 feet from pool walls
1987 Unfinished basements
1987 Kitchen countertop receptacles within 6 feet of sink
1987 Boathouses
1990 Crawlspaces (with exception for sump pumps or other dedicated equip.)
1993 Wet bar countertops within 6 feet of sink
1993 Any receptacle replaced in an area presently requiring GFCI
1996 All kitchen counters ? not just those within 6 feet of sink
1996 All exterior receptacles except dedicated de-icing tape receptacle
1996 Unfinished accessory buildings at or below grade
1999 Exemption for dedicated equipment in crawlspace removed

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com

3

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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dsutrina wrote:
I'm looking for clarification. I understood GFCI outlets were required within 3 feet of kitchen sink, but recently was lead to understand the rule is 6 feet. Which is correct?
Thanks
dsutrina


Presently the rule in dwelling units is this for required GFCIs

Quote:
Kitchens ? where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces


The only place 6' comes in is wetbar sinks.

--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
4

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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I always stay inside within 6’ of a wet bar. icon_biggrin.gif


Mike P.

5

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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GFCIs, when and where. As was in Mike Holt’s newsletter.



GFCI Requirement Page

--
Jerry Peck
South Florida

6

Originally Posted By: Lew Lewis
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I see some new kitchens with counter outlets that are 20+ feet away from water; why would you need a GFCI outlet at that location. About as ridiculous as - Why did it take until 1987 to require GFCI devices in the kitchen. Seems to me that the GFCI should have been required in a bathroom and kitchen in the same code cycle.

7

Originally Posted By: pdacey
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GFCI, Ground Fault Circuit Interupter.


It is to protect you from all ground faults, not just ones associated with water. Most small kitchen appliances are not grounded.

--
Slainte!

Patrick Dacey
swi@satx.rr.com
TREC # 6636
www.southwestinspections.com

8

Originally Posted By: ltrower
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Good question Ken but, you are forgetting 2 things.


1. People spill liquids all over the place, like when mixing and you spill the milk or water. Spills don't just happen at the sink.

2. When passing new laws you have to remember that politicians are not noted for great brains let alone thinking like a person in the real world.

Lee Trower

9

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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ltrower wrote:
2. When passing new laws you have to remember that politicians are not noted for great brains let alone thinking like a person in the real world.


Luckily politicians are not involved with writing the NEC. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

If you look at the front of the code book you will see the CMPs (Code Making Panels) names listed and who they are affiliated with.

Most CMPs are made up of union and non-union electricians, engineers, representatives from equipment manufactures, ANSI, NEMA, UL etc.

CMP NO.2 has about 20 members and handles Article 210

When changes are made, it is because in their terms 'substantiation' has shown that a change is needed.

You certainly can not say having all the counter outlets on GFCIs is a bad thing.

In this case requiring GFCIs for all outlets serving counter tops does not cause a hardship, if the kitchen is wired to code minimums this only adds one more GFCI device needed. Figure you already needed one GFCI device for the outlets within 6' of the sink, now you need another GFCI device for the second required kitchen circuit.

In commercial kitchens all 120 volt 15 and 20 amp plugs must be on GFCIs and this is creating problems that have to be worked out.

--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
10

Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Erby


I think Jerry is the author of your list.

Mike P.

11

Originally Posted By: jtedesco
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http://www.birchgrove.net/%7Ekbelectric/gfci.htm

–
Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant


www.nachi.org/tedescobook.htm
12

Originally Posted By: jremas
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I am bewildered that a home inspector and member had to ask that question. This goes back to basic, basic, basic information that should be common knowledge. Unbelievable.

–



Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com

570-362-1598
13

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Jeff R,


I do agree that is common "basic, basic, basic" knowledge, although some of us are not gifted with great memory recall. I personally am glad that he asked and clarified that he was incorrect, rather than go about his business like nothing was wrong.

He certainly is an inspector that I would use because it took more BA**S for him to ask that question knowing if he was wrong his peers would scold and ridicule him beyond belief. ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

Joe Myers

14

Originally Posted By: jremas
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I knew you would chime in there Myers. Where were you tonight? I thought you would come up with Nick since our meeting was so close. You went to NY NACHI which is about 3 hours farther. I’m hurt, really wanted to meet you in person.

–



Jeff Remas
REMAS Inspections, Inc.
Northeastern PA & the Poconos
www.NEPAinspector.com

570-362-1598
15

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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jmyers wrote:
... some of us are not gifted with great memory recall. I personally am glad that he asked and clarified that he was incorrect, rather than go about his business like nothing was wrong.

Very true ... That is basic stuff, but no reason to hammer him on asking about something he wasn't sure about. There have been a lot of recent changes in the model codes concerning GFCI outlets and other things, and sometimes it's hard for an HI to keep up with the requirements of current "safety standards". Plus model codes like the NEC can be very dry and confusing for an HI also. That is why I highly recommend an HI also keep a current copy of this field reference:

CODE CHECK - A FIELD GUIDE TO BUILDING A SAFE HOUSE <--- Click Here

Has that newer GFCI kitchen counter requirement as a one liner on Pg 27 under "Kitchen Circuits", including references to the IRC and NEC code sections so ya can go there to look it up if needed. Kind of like cheat sheets for building codes, and IMHO the best thing since sliced bread for an HI ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

Goes great with a copy of the IRC, which also has all the basic NEC residential requirements condensed into about 70 pages. Plus a lot of local colleges have short courses on current building codes that use those as references. IMHO, great continuing education too ... ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong